HID's

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HitecRednec
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Re: HID's

Postby HitecRednec » Mon Nov 02, 2009 1:05 am

I live in FL, USA and if some Idiot in Ocala thinks he's a know it all by stating HID's are not legal then let him be the fool he appears to be as I have been told and I have confirmed there is no law in the FL Books regarding HID's in the state of Florida and the only reference to limitations of colors is to the use of RED, BLUE and AMBER. There is also no reference to any law restricting the use of Strobe Lights, however they should be used responsibly.

Please provide me with any FL State Statute you feel I need to look at or further research.

The HitecRednec

http://www.leg.state.fl.us/Statutes/index.cfm?App_mode=Display_Statute&URL=Ch0316/ch0316.htm

316.2397 Certain lights prohibited; exceptions.--

(1) No person shall drive or move or cause to be moved any vehicle or equipment upon any highway within this state with any lamp or device thereon showing or displaying a red or blue light visible from directly in front thereof except for certain vehicles hereinafter provided.

(2) It is expressly prohibited for any vehicle or equipment, except police vehicles, to show or display blue lights. However, vehicles owned, operated, or leased by the Department of Corrections or any county correctional agency may show or display blue lights when responding to emergencies.

(3) Vehicles of the fire department and fire patrol, including vehicles of volunteer firefighters as permitted under s. 316.2398, vehicles of medical staff physicians or technicians of medical facilities licensed by the state as authorized under s. 316.2398, ambulances as authorized under this chapter, and buses and taxicabs as authorized under s. 316.2399 are permitted to show or display red lights. Vehicles of the fire department, fire patrol, police vehicles, and such ambulances and emergency vehicles of municipal and county departments, public service corporations operated by private corporations, the Department of Environmental Protection, the Department of Transportation, the Department of Agriculture and Consumer Services, and the Department of Corrections as are designated or authorized by their respective department or the chief of police of an incorporated city or any sheriff of any county are hereby authorized to operate emergency lights and sirens in an emergency. Wreckers, mosquito control fog and spray vehicles, and emergency vehicles of governmental departments or public service corporations may show or display amber lights when in actual operation or when a hazard exists provided they are not used going to and from the scene of operation or hazard without specific authorization of a law enforcement officer or law enforcement agency. Wreckers must use amber rotating or flashing lights while performing recoveries and loading on the roadside day or night, and may use such lights while towing a vehicle on wheel lifts, slings, or under reach if the operator of the wrecker deems such lights necessary. A flatbed, car carrier, or rollback may not use amber rotating or flashing lights when hauling a vehicle on the bed unless it creates a hazard to other motorists because of protruding objects. Further, escort vehicles may show or display amber lights when in the actual process of escorting overdimensioned equipment, material, or buildings as authorized by law. Vehicles owned or leased by private security agencies may show or display green and amber lights, with either color being no greater than 50 percent of the lights displayed, while the security personnel are engaged in security duties on private or public property.

(4) Road or street maintenance equipment, road or street maintenance vehicles, road service vehicles, refuse collection vehicles, petroleum tankers, and mail carrier vehicles may show or display amber lights when in operation or a hazard exists.

(5) Road maintenance and construction equipment and vehicles may display flashing white lights or flashing white strobe lights when in operation and where a hazard exists. Additionally, school buses and vehicles that are used to transport farm workers may display flashing white strobe lights.

(6) All lighting equipment heretofore referred to shall meet all requirements as set forth in s. 316.241.

(7) Flashing lights are prohibited on vehicles except as a means of indicating a right or left turn, to change lanes, or to indicate that the vehicle is lawfully stopped or disabled upon the highway or except that the lamps authorized in subsections (1), (2), (3), (4), and (9) and s. 316.235(5) are permitted to flash.

(8) Subsections (1) and (7) do not apply to police, fire, or authorized emergency vehicles while in the performance of their necessary duties.

(9) Flashing red lights may be used by emergency response vehicles of the Department of Environmental Protection and the Department of Health when responding to an emergency in the line of duty.

(10) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135; ss. 1, 23, ch. 76-31; s. 2, ch. 80-176; s. 1, ch. 84-49; s. 4, ch. 86-23; s. 1, ch. 87-157; s. 1, ch. 89-49; s. 58, ch. 93-164; s. 23, ch. 94-306; s. 900, ch. 95-148; s. 17, ch. 96-263; s. 2, ch. 96-312; s. 7, ch. 97-280; s. 17, ch. 97-300; s. 192, ch. 99-248; s. 134, ch. 2002-20; s. 3, ch. 2002-217; s. 1, ch. 2004-20; s. 1, ch. 2007-52; s. 2, ch. 2007-210; s. 1, ch. 2009-220.

Note.--Former s. 316.223.

316.2398 Display or use of red warning signals; motor vehicles of volunteer firefighters or medical staff.--

(1) A privately owned vehicle belonging to an active firefighter member of a regularly organized volunteer firefighting company or association, while en route to the fire station for the purpose of proceeding to the scene of a fire or other emergency or while en route to the scene of a fire or other emergency in the line of duty as an active firefighter member of a regularly organized firefighting company or association, or a privately owned vehicle belonging to a medical staff physician or technician of a medical facility licensed by the state, while responding to an emergency in the line of duty, may display or use red warning signals visible from the front and from the rear of such vehicle, subject to the following restrictions and conditions:

(a) No more than two red warning signals may be displayed.

(b) No inscription of any kind may appear across the face of the lens of the red warning signal.

(c) In order for an active volunteer firefighter to display such red warning signals on his or her vehicle, the volunteer firefighter must first secure a written permit from the chief executive officers of the firefighting organization to use the red warning signals, and this permit must be carried by the volunteer firefighter at all times while the red warning signals are displayed.

(2) It is unlawful for any person who is not an active firefighter member of a regularly organized volunteer firefighting company or association or a physician or technician of the medical staff of a medical facility licensed by the state to display on any motor vehicle owned by him or her, at any time, any red warning signals as described in subsection (1).

(3) It is unlawful for an active volunteer firefighter to operate any red warning signals as authorized in subsection (1), except while en route to the fire station for the purpose of proceeding to the scene of a fire or other emergency, or while at or en route to the scene of a fire or other emergency, in the line of duty.

(4) It is unlawful for a physician or technician of the medical staff of a medical facility to operate any red warning signals as authorized in subsection (1), except when responding to an emergency in the line of duty.

(5) A violation of this section is a nonmoving violation, punishable as provided in chapter 318. In addition, any volunteer firefighter shall be dismissed from membership in the firefighting organization by the chief executive officers thereof.

History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 1, ch. 76-31; s. 1, ch. 77-454; s. 3, ch. 80-176; s. 2, ch. 87-157; s. 324, ch. 95-148; s. 31, ch. 96-350; s. 1, ch. 2003-165.

Note.--Former s. 316.292.

316.2399 Special warning lights for buses or taxicabs.--The provisions of s. 316.2397(7) to the contrary notwithstanding, a bus or taxicab may be equipped with two flashing devices for the purpose of warning the operators of other vehicles and law enforcement agents that an emergency situation exists within the bus or taxicab. Such devices shall be capable of activation by the operator of the bus or taxicab and shall be of a type approved by the Department of Highway Safety and Motor Vehicles. Such devices shall be mounted one at the front and one at the rear of the bus or taxicab and shall display flashing red lights which shine on the roadway under the vehicle. A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.--s. 2, ch. 89-49; s. 91, ch. 99-13; s. 193, ch. 99-248.

316.240 Standards for lights on highway maintenance and service equipment.--

(1) The Department of Transportation shall adopt standards and specifications applicable to headlamps, clearance lamps, and identification and other lamps on highway maintenance and service equipment when operated on state roads and county road system of this state in lieu of the lamps otherwise required on motor vehicles by this chapter. Such standards and specifications may permit the use of flashing lights for purposes of identification on highway maintenance and service equipment when in service upon the highways. The standards and specifications for lamps referred to in this section shall correlate with, and as far as possible conform with, those approved by the American Association of State Highway Officials.

(2) It is unlawful to operate any highway maintenance and service equipment on any highway as described heretofore unless the lamps thereon comply with and are lighted when and as required by the standards and specifications adopted as provided in this section.

(3) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 194, ch. 99-248.

316.241 Selling or using lamps or equipment.--

(1) No person shall have for sale, sell or offer for sale for use upon or as a part of the equipment of a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer or use upon any such vehicle any headlamp, auxiliary or fog lamp, rear lamp, signal lamp, or reflector, which reflector is required hereunder, or parts of any of the foregoing, which tend to change the original design or performance, unless of a type which has been submitted to the department and approved. The foregoing provisions of this section shall not apply to equipment in actual use when this section is adopted or replacement parts therefor.

(2) No person shall have for sale, sell, or offer for sale for use upon or as a part of the equipment of a motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer any lamp or device mentioned in this section which has been approved by the department unless such lamp or device bears thereon the trademark or name under which it is approved so as to be legible when installed.

(3) No person shall use upon any motor vehicle, trailer, semitrailer, or pole trailer any lamps mentioned in this section unless said lamps are mounted, adjusted, and aimed in accordance with instructions of the department.

(4) A violation of this section is a noncriminal traffic infraction, punishable as a nonmoving violation as provided in chapter 318.

History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135; s. 195, ch. 99-248.

316.242 Revocation of certificate of approval on lighting devices.--

(1) When the department has reason to believe that an approved lighting device as being sold commercially does not comply with the requirements of this chapter, it may, after giving 30 days' previous notice to the person holding the certificate of approval for such device in this state, conduct a hearing upon the question of compliance of the approved device. After the hearing the department shall determine whether the approved device meets the requirements of this chapter. If the device does not meet the requirements of this chapter it shall give notice to the person holding the certificate of approval for such device in this state.

(2) If at the expiration of 90 days after such notice the person holding the certificate of approval for the device has failed to satisfy the department that the approved device as thereafter to be sold meets the requirements of this chapter, the department shall suspend or revoke the approval issued therefor until or unless such device is resubmitted to and retested by an authorized testing agency and is found to meet the requirements of this chapter, and may require that all said devices sold since the notification following the hearing be replaced with devices that do comply with the requirements of this chapter. The department may at the time of the retest purchase in the open market and submit to the testing agency one or more sets of such approved devices, and if the device upon retest fails to meet the requirements of this chapter, the department may refuse to renew the certificate of approval of such device.

History.--s. 1, ch. 71-135.


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WOLFMAN AK907
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Re: HID's

Postby WOLFMAN AK907 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 2:23 am

Guys, please try to keep your conversations on the board civil, so as we can all enjoy this place. Thanks, The Management. Thank you for posting all the technical lighting laws for the state of FL HiTecRedNec. I know how much time it takes to find that stuff.
Farthest North Aveo: Fairbanks, Alaska
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Manorness7
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Re: HID's

Postby Manorness7 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 7:20 am

On the old board this same thread turned bad, let's not have that again.
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Petrified.Rabbit
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Re: HID's

Postby Petrified.Rabbit » Mon Nov 02, 2009 8:25 am

Here we go..

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thehunterooo
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Re: HID's

Postby thehunterooo » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:52 am

lol the ocala police are garbage, i dont even think they know how to read ;)
http://www.facebook.com/#/profile.php?ref=name&id=100000185677338

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3124271

Reddemonx92
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Re: HID's

Postby Reddemonx92 » Mon Nov 02, 2009 9:59 am

lol they might not even know all the statutes

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thehunterooo
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Re: HID's

Postby thehunterooo » Mon Nov 02, 2009 10:21 am

i would cry hater if i got pulled over in my civic...i mean aveo with my HIDs, cops gotta hate on my import
http://www.facebook.com/#/profile.php?ref=name&id=100000185677338

http://www.cardomain.com/ride/3124271

ontarian_frog
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Re: HID's

Postby ontarian_frog » Mon Nov 02, 2009 11:54 am

@The HitecRednec

It's not that simple. The Federal DOT regulates motor vehicle headlamps and although HIDs aren't mentioned as outright illegal, some parts could be. (see FMVSS 108 http://fmvss108.tripod.com/fmvss108text.htm).

For one, the light output must meet minimums and maximums set. Also, the light has to be white as per SAE J578c defines white by: "blue, yellow, green, red and purple boundaries within a chromaticity diagram. Thus, it is possible to design a headlamp that emits a light that approaches the blue boundary and is perceived as having a blue tint but which nevertheless remains within the boundaries that define "white"".

http://www.nhtsa.dot.gov/cars/rules/interps/files/21118.ztv.html

What that means is that the light output can seem to approached any of these colors and be considered legal, to some degree. It mentions that the light can be light blue and still be legal, but it's very vague.

Another thing to consider is the DOT markings. You'll see them on all legal halogen bulbs. A police officer could, in theory, take the HID bulb out and see if the DOT markings are absent.

ontarian_frog
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Re: HID's

Postby ontarian_frog » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:25 pm

After more research,

"Because replaceable light sources are, by regulation, designed to be non-interchangeable, it would not be possible for an HID headlamp conversion set to meet the standard’s photometry requirements for an original equipment headlamp system using a halogen light source, so the replacement lamps could not be sold for this purpose. Furthermore, a headlamp dealer or motor vehicle repair business could not remove the original halogen headlamps and install HID replacement headlamps without violating 49 U.S.C. 30122. That section prohibits manufacturers, distributors, dealers, and motor vehicle repair businesses from making inoperative equipment installed in accordance with a Federal motor vehicle safety standard."

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/Shih.3.html

from another letter....

"...Based on a review of the H1 light source specification filed in the Part 564 docket (#3397), it is apparent that the Thunder Beam HID Conversion kit is a significant redesign of the H1 light source. At the most basic level, an H1 light source incorporates an incandescent filament in which light is produced by a metallic wire coil heated to incandescence by an electrical current, whereas the HID conversion kit’s light source incorporates a discharge arc to produce the light and requires a ballast for operation. Thus, in order to comply with paragraph S7.7 of FMVSS No. 108, the Thunder Beam light source must comply with, inter alia, the dimensional specifications for the metallic wire coil filament size and location, the electrical connector size and location, and the ballast would need to be a design currently on file for use with an H1 light source. Complying with the dimensional aspects of the H1 light source appears to be an impossibility considering that the wire coil filament and the electrical connector are not a part of your design. Furthermore, there are no ballast designs on file for use with an H1 light source. Thus, your company’s HID conversion kit is not a design that conforms to the Standard and could not be certified as complying with FMVSS No. 108, nor imported into or sold in the United States."

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/deetz.ztv.html The same can be said about H4 or 9003 bulbs.

And a last one,

"...HID conversion kits are illegal if any item in the kit does not comply with Federal requirements for vehicle lighting equipment. Please read the letter carefully and apply our analysis to the components of the kits you are selling. If one or more of these components does not comply with FMVSS No. 108, then you should cease the sale and distribution of this equipment. Your failure to do so could make your company liable for civil penalties for violations of 49 U.S.C. 30112(a). If your company manufactured or imported noncompliant HID conversion kits for resale, your company is required to notify this agency, dealers, purchasers, and owners of the kits and to remedy the noncompliance in accordance with 49 U.S.C. 30118-30120 and 49 CFR Parts 573 and 577. I should advise you that we know of no HID conversion kit that can be certified by its manufacturer as complying with FMVSS No. 108."

http://isearch.nhtsa.gov/files/kim.ztv.html

These are all letters from people trying to use or sell HID conversion kits as a legal, on road device. They've all been told the same thing. Since the replacing HID kit cannot not be certified as a replacement for a halogen bulb under US regulation, in no way shape or form will any kits be legal. For a conversion kit to be legal, it would need to include a new housing made for the new light source, meet DOT specifications and comply with FMVSS No. 108.

If anyone has any doubt still, contact the NHTSA.

Now, how this affects the user, well if your car is deemed illegal to drive, you can be pulled over, fined and your vehicle can be towed under your State/Province law.

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HitecRednec
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Re: HID's

Postby HitecRednec » Mon Nov 02, 2009 12:42 pm

I guess I stand corrected. The information posted above seems to be accurate. I do believe a vehicle owner could however beat a case in court provided they have a good attorney. While ignorance to the law is by no means a defense that would win, a direct reference to one's Local and State law would provide enough of a basis for pleading the defendant made honest and prudent effort to research State and Local law which neglected to mention by design or other characteristics the means by which the HID lighting source is classified as Prohibited.

The HitecRednec



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