'07 Aveo Sedan idle's high on startup

[petrified.rabbit]

you can properly tune a fuel injected engine with out a cat to produce little nox or hydrocarbon emission.

[serega12]

[quote=ontarian_frog]

its not illegal because it is made of platinum. Its illegal because of federal emissions laws, its worded something like: you may not remove a functional (working, not clogged or damaged) cat from you vehicle.

thats about it.. i bet even without the cat his aveo produces less emissions and uses less gas driving 50 miles than a v10 excursion driving the same distance. this is where i think the laws need rethought.

You'd be wrong... although carbon dioxide emissions will be fine without the cat. It's the NOx and Hydrocarbon emissions that get a treatment in the cat. If you remove the cat, the hydrocarbon emissions go through the roof and that's why the exhaust smells like gasoline... NOx contributes to global warming, acid rain and smog.[/quote:38bv2mnt]

You sure NOx does all that? And saying that it "contributes" to all those things is like saying that Nintendo contributes to the chance of the third world war by displaying violence in their Super Mario games to young audiences.... I'm sure there is a chance of that, but that chance would be VERY slim to none...

And global warming... really? mostly politics. acid rain and smog??? Usually done by large industrial factories to my knowledge... But hey, they tell us on CNN that that's what happens - and sure enough, that's what happens.

Have you seen the movie "The invention of lying"? About the world with no lies? They say something and everyone believes it? We're not much different than that when it comes to the media... but that's a totally different topic.

I believe we were talking about idle on start up. Also, if our cars are driven with a cat removed (strictly for discussion purposes) the lag between depressing clutch and the RPMs going back to idle (or a very slow descent of RPMs) is gone... Is that because of the lack of back pressure?

[thehunterooo]

lol i was jk, i could care less what happens to the enviroment

[dragonwarrior2016]

I should have worded it better Look I remove a nonfunctioning Catalytic Converter off of a ford pickup and tried to take it to the recycler because my governor for who I didn't vote for Signed a bill in 2009 creating a two week holding period to make sure that any type of metal is not stolen. My Dad had a 1983 Nissan/Datsun Sentra that was not doing so well. To make a long story short my uncle borrowed the car and got as far as the Antioch church of god and died, my uncle walked back cursing mad so my dad and uncle pulled the car back to the house and my Grandpa took his thumb and a hammer and poked a hole in the Catalytic converter and the car ran fine ever since and my dad said the car got better gas mileage it used to get 29MPG after this it got 56 MPG. My Grandpa said The catalytic converter is the biggest sham that is on a car. I am sorry for what I said earlier but Will the Engine light cut on if I remove the CAT.

[serega12]

Not if you extend the second O2 sensor as described here:

viewtopic.php?f=22&t=11

[dragonwarrior2016]

Thanks I might try to take it off But it's getting excellent gas mileage since I changed the spark plugs.

[ontarian_frog]

You sure NOx does all that? And saying that it "contributes" to all those things is like saying that Nintendo contributes to the chance of the third world war by displaying violence in their Super Mario games to young audiences.... I'm sure there is a chance of that, but that chance would be VERY slim to none...

And global warming... really? mostly politics. acid rain and smog??? Usually done by large industrial factories to my knowledge... But hey, they tell us on CNN that that's what happens - and sure enough, that's what happens.

Have you seen the movie "The invention of lying"? About the world with no lies? They say something and everyone believes it? We're not much different than that when it comes to the media... but that's a totally different topic.

I believe we were talking about idle on start up. Also, if our cars are driven with a cat removed (strictly for discussion purposes) the lag between depressing clutch and the RPMs going back to idle (or a very slow descent of RPMs) is gone... Is that because of the lack of back pressure?

Car engines are very inefficient, even with advanced fuel management like we have today. Emissions are worst on start-up....that is true, That is also when the catalytic converter is least effective, if at all. The fact that you don't believe in smog proves your ignorance of the effects of NOx, CxHx, SOx and even heavy particles on health and the environment. I don't see any reason to continue this discussion... What you believe and do is fine, I believe in a free world myself. But it's not a reason to deny the truth.

[petrified.rabbit]

NOx is unheathly if you breath it in, mostly in tunnels garages etc. but does it not break down in sunlight through multiple stages until it become nitrogen and oxygen? some of those stages being as bad or worse, like oxygen become ozone instead of o2 that we breath..

CxHx is unburned fuel, a compromise of factory tuning, and government emissions. the cat actually get damaged by this, hence the need for a secondary ait system opening to reburn exhaust.. keeping high levels og CxHx from even entering the cat.

SOx is created be the sulfur content this is where my thinking is based on the government should make gas companies take as much sulfur out of their product before it gets to the pump. Most SOx was in diesel fuel which is now low sulfur which will be good for the environment. Properly running gas cars don't produce much of this, but charging your electric cars probably produces more SOx than running a gas car.

The emissions my car produces is like a one gallon bucket in the ocean. I think the world needs to mandate manufacturing and business standards so that the negligible amount of emission that todays cars produce could be a bigger contributor. (if that makes sense) instead of tell us we are the problem, and hacking at the tax payer, to cut our emissions. The should snuff out the people who give them money to get elected. like that will ever happen.

Stop passing the blame onto the consumers/tax payers and create a world that allows us to live ecofriendly without trying and without compromise.

edit: i seem to recall a quote from somewhere, that even if every american driver stopped driving for a entire day, it would take 7 minutes for china to produce the same emissions that the US public "prevented".

OH and lets not forget the evil CO2 emissions... no that we cut down all those trees how can we convert that back into oxygen?

[serega12]

Ontarian_frog, I'm not ignorant about anything like that, and I never said I don't believe in smog, I did say though that my car doesn't affect smog as much as you say it does. I agree with rabbit that it's like a bucket in the ocean, and I did say that large factories/corporations have a LOT larger impact on the smog than my and your car ever will...

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is forcing anyone to post if you don't think the discussion is worth continuing.

I find these discussions educative, at the very least, entertaining. And I try to keep my mind open about things we talk about.

By the way, the "truth" that you're saying I'm denying is a matter of scientific opinion in many cases and can be "bent" for political (and many other) reasons. Unless we're two highly educated professors with plenty of years of lab experience on the topic, I don't think either one of us can tell the other what's "truth" and what's not.

This is just a friendly discussion, let's keep it that way.

[ontarian_frog]

Ontarian_frog, I'm not ignorant about anything like that, and I never said I don't believe in smog, I did say though that my car doesn't affect smog as much as you say it does. I agree with rabbit that it's like a bucket in the ocean, and I did say that large factories/corporations have a LOT larger impact on the smog than my and your car ever will...

And, correct me if I'm wrong, but I don't think anyone is forcing anyone to post if you don't think the discussion is worth continuing.

I find these discussions educative, at the very least, entertaining. And I try to keep my mind open about things we talk about.

By the way, the "truth" that you're saying I'm denying is a matter of scientific opinion in many cases and can be "bent" for political (and many other) reasons. Unless we're two highly educated professors with plenty of years of lab experience on the topic, I don't think either one of us can tell the other what's "truth" and what's not.

This is just a friendly discussion, let's keep it that way.

Thanks for the "come back down to Earth" talk. I get carried away sometimes. I'm a hard headed S.O.B. and don't back down easy.

Although I still don't agree with the bucket in the ocean theory. If every car is a bucket, then over 400 million cars is nothing to sneeze at, That's in North America alone. It is true that industries are way worst than cars. Hell, economists know that you can estimate a country's GDP by looking at the H2SO4 they produce.