2004 Aveo Issue

[Melveo]

i completely agree

[petrified.rabbit]

There is a lot to read there. It mostly sounded like legal issues to me, and I stay out of disputes with mechanics and owners. (why I didn't post) But I will say after reading through your posts. That is why garages have insurance, they should cover it. I would file with the BBB, and then get their insurance adjuster to look at your car. Have the new shop pull it back apart, and check timing marks, etc. If the previous shop cannot account for head bolts, or anything like that, it's their fault. The only issue I foresee is since you took it from them, and they can now say they threw away old parts.. receipts are key.

I would have never paid them for any of what they did, unless you supplied the head? Or did they get the head for you? Their excuses of the head being cammed wrong, or bad lifters is either the fault of the machine shop or the mechanic not checking the parts. NOT yours. But if you supplied the head, and asked them to put it on, they would still need to check those things before install (its part of timing belt timing). There should be a paper trail from their parts supplier for any parts they did install. Including lifters, head bolts, etc.

The new engine excuse is an excuse. They are trying to place fault with you, but they agreed to putting the head on. If there was another issue with the bottom end, that is the risk you were taking (paying labor to remove head before knowing if it needed a whole engine). But those labor prices are ridiculous for what you have received.

Most mechanic shops want to do engines (same labor, more mark up, less liability), but I agree its not always best or necessary. Its the new dealership mentality. My friends and I used to make tons of money rebuilding dealer take out engines cover under warranty and the selling them on craigslist, or sticking them into cars that were absorbed for the same problem you are in now.

[rhoadesl]

Please continue to keep us posted on this. I have read it all and am flabbergasted at the audacity of that original repair shop. Had a similar problem with my 05 Aveo LS but got lucky and found my problem, it was the coil pack. With a cold engine it would run great for about 5 minutes but when it warmed up it skipped. Good luck with your car and I would add, if you like the car, keep it, they are great little cars.

[thankful_ragamuffin]

This is the reason why I postedHow to choose a shop (This is long). The valve timing appears to be incorrect, which is the general consensus. Remove the timing cover and take pictures (preferably video) of the belt and gears rotating through at least two revolutions. This should make the incorrect timing painfully obvious and would account for zero compression and bent valves. In the invoice (which really said little of what they did) they did say "checked timing", making them responsible for the valve timing and any issues stemming from anything wrong with it. If they say they checked ignition timing, remind them it has no mechanical adjustment so the only timing they can check is valve timing. If your state has no consumer advocacy agency or legislation, go to a media outlet that has one if the shop refuses to make good on its mistake. In a worst case scenario and you can get no satisfaction, try doing it yourself. Between this forum and youtube there is enough info that even someone with no experience can complete the job successfully.

[Darsen]

All,

Well the plot thickens...

I had the car towed back to the original shop (they had agreed to fix it), and then got a call from them late last week.

The owner told me that he wanted to show me something and it would only take me about 30 minutes.

Also asked them about the head bolts being re-used and they told me absolutely not. They said how did that guy even determine that they were reused?? I told them that he has had a lot of experience with it and he told me they had definitely been reused.

They took off the valve cover and loosened up the rear cam shaft bolts.

Inserted in the leak down tool and put pressure. I could not hear any leaks. Then they started tightening the bolts down for the cam shaft and then the head started leaking.

They repeated this on one other cylinder (3 and 4) and then blamed the head for all the problems.

Told me that the "lifters have tiny holes in them" that allow oil in and the reason why the car ran for 10 to 15 minutes was because the lifters came from the machine shop without oil in them and it took a while for them to get oil in them.

They are telling me there is something wrong with the head and that they did nothing wrong.

Does this make sense? It was interesting that when they put the head on originally, they told me it had uniform compression across all cylinders. Now it has less than 85 psi in all cylinders.

I am being told this is because the head was re-manufactured incorrectly.

The shop is not liable.

Doesn't make sense to me.. head went on... good compression, ran good for 10 to 15 minutes.. then skipping again.

I am totally confused..

Can anyone sort this out??

Why would loosening the cambolts make the head leak go away?

Thanks!

Darsen

[xintersecty]

Beats the whatever out of me. Heads are pretty simple. The weird shape things that go round round making other things go up/down. I followed the shop manual and torque everything to spec.

So if it's a bad head, who is on tap for it? Did you buy it and provided it to the shop. Looks like he is avoiding all kinds of blame and trying to shift it onto somebody else.

And if he did reused same head bolts

"What happens if you reuse cylinder head bolts? "

Possible blown head gaskets and warped heads, that's all.

That stuff about the lifters is almost true, I seriously doubt it takes 15 minuets for the oil to pressurize the lifters.

[thankful_ragamuffin]

Look at the orientation of the camshafts in the picture - cylinders 3 and 4 each appear to have cam lobes down which would open valves and allow pressure to escape when the cam towers are tightened down. I'm suspecting smoke and mirrors here. I would urge you to find another shop.

[jimzdat]

Something in their story sounds fishy - if they loosened up the cam bolts, that would allow the valve springs to lift the cam up, closing the valves (assuming the cam lobe had them opened). Tightening the bolts back down would then potentially open the valves back up,allowing air to escape the cylinder, into either the intake or exhaust manifolds. A proper leak down test should be done with the cams removed, allowing all the valves to be closed - with the cams in place, there's always going to be at least one cylinder with a valve open somewhere.

On the lifters; yes, they do have a hydraulic element to them that has to pump up with oil - given that the average engine operates at approximately 20psi minimum oil pressure, at a flow rate of 1-2 gpm, all of the lifters should be pressurized and filled within a matter of seconds after the engine started- no way in hell it would take 15 minutes. And if anything, it would run smoother once they are pumped up.

Have they proven to you that when the crankshaft timing Mark is at TDC, the camshaft timing marks are properly aligned, and the tensioner position indicator is set correctly? If not, they are currently trying to force combustion byproduct into your rectum, in hopes you'll give up and give them lots of money.

This is all just my opinion, based on the information provided - but something about their latest attempt doesn't pass the smell test....

[xintersecty]

Something in their story sounds fishy - if they loosened up the cam bolts, that would allow the valve springs to lift the cam up, closing the valves (assuming the cam lobe had them opened). Tightening the bolts back down would then potentially open the valves back up,allowing air to escape the cylinder, into either the intake or exhaust manifolds

Jimzdat is right. They are playing you for a fool. For the test they are showing you, both sets of cams must be closed on the compression cycle.

[Melveo]

it is possibly to put the cam gears back on the wrong cam