Still no brakes

[Slow-But-Fast]

Thank you for looking at this troubleshooting thread. I tried to provide as much potentially valuable information as possible to further help diagnose the problem.

Enjoy the struggle bus that I adventured on so far!






About a week ago, I decided to change my brakes on my 2006 Automatic Aveo LT hatchback. Brakes and emergency brake (e-brake) worked, but (1) there was a clicking sound where the e-brake is when I had the car off and pressed on the brake pedal, and (2) the car would pull to one side when braking and the car would jerk while slowing down with pedal pressed. I figured it was a stuck caliper. I decided to change all four brakes, because I never changed my rear drum brakes since I bought the car. With my work hours, I can do only so much in one day.


On August 21st, I changed my front brakes (rotors, pads, calipers, brake pad hardware). When installing the banjo bolt, I couldn't get the hole to properly line up with the brake line without over tightening it. At one point, I decided to on the driver front, but later decided to loosen and tighten to spec even if the hole was basically 90 degrees from the brake line. I couldn't quickly find if it really mattered that the banjo bolt was off that much, so I didn't bother. I couldn't tell the proper orientation for the bleeders on the calipers, so I snugged it by hand. Only bleed the front brakes. But it still was not fully hard, and so when I drove it, I barely had any brakes (delayed braking). Probably stupid and unsafe to drive, but I did it anyway. I kept more than enough distance between cars to stop!! I can't remember if e-brake was still working, but I would assume it was working since I didn't touch the rear brakes yet!


August 22-23, I changed my rear drum brakes. Replacing all the springs, new shoes, drums, and wheel cylinders. I did strip a brake fitting for the wheel cylinder on the driver rear, and so I replaced the whole short brake line and shaped it the best I could by hand ($5 each line). (I would suggest turning the right way haha ) Adjusted the drums (star adjuster?) so there is almost no drag when I spin the rear wheels. Is there a certain revolution the wheels should spin freely? I noticed that the new bottom springs that holds the shoes together was slightly different than the original, but I decided to use it anyway. Seems like everything engaged and pressed and wheels don't spin (at least with my one-man test). Emergency brake doesn't work now. Probably too loose, but figured it would be resolved from bleeding and allowing the drums to self adjust. Bled all 4 brakes (although I didn't feel confident because my bleeding hose was not properly on) with car off in typical sequence. Brake still felt spongy. Seemed like it would get hard then release. When pumping, you can hear the adjusters clicking. My dad, who is fairly mechanically inclined, said that my master cylinder wasn't working.


After that day, I decided not to drive the car because it was too unsafe to drive and I couldn't use the e-brake to stop.


Next day, August 24th, I rebled my brakes, because of how poorly I felt I did. I made sure the hose was on the bleeders properly. I bled so much, I nearly changed the brake fluid, because they were all clear with no bubbles. I checked for leaks on the new brake line and all the brake fittings on the calipers and wheel cylinders, and on the floor. Nothing. Brake pedal felt hard, then would release to the floor after I turned on the car and after awhile with the car off. My dad had restated that I needed a new master cylinder, since (1) I wasn't leaking brake fluid, and, (2) after bleeding brakes, brakes still weren't hard. I decided to go ahead and purchase a AC Delco Master Cylinder on Rock Auto (Part number: 18M2625), and making sure it was for an Automatic transmission and non-ABS; which this part was for. Roughly $100 with 1-2 Business Day shipping. I chose a new master cylinder because Scotty Kilmer (YouTube) said the re-manufactured typically didn't last and/or were worse than the original. I could of gotten a cheaper unknown brand, but I wanted to play it safe and get something I know will work.


The Master Cylinder (MC) part came in today on August 27th. Started to take the "old" brake fluid out with turkey baster. Loosened the brakes lines from the MC. I actually twisted one of the brake lines connected to the check-valve/residual pressure valve (?), and decided to splice (3/16" plug) with one the new brake lines I got a few days ago. I realized, after I installed the "Gater Gripper Solid Brass Compressor Fitting CF-1 AGS", that its for a compressor fitting, and says on it "NOT for use in Automotive Brake Line Systems"; so I guess I will have to swap it with a proper one... Anyway, with lots of huffing and puffing, I was able to remove the check valves from the brakes lines and the MC. I nearly stripped one of the check valves because I don't have much room and I don't have a 22mm wrench (I used vice grips to take off and an adjustable wrench to put back on). I couldn't find a part number in my 10 minute google search, otherwise I would replace both check valves. When I unclipped the MC connector, the plastic's disconnect was so brittle that half of it fell apart. It will still connect to the new MC connector, but there is no 'clicking' into place. (Not sure if that was important to say, but it's related so I included it.) When I removed the old MC, there was a hissing sound. From what I heard from YouTube (can't remember who), that means my booster is working(?). Cleaned brake fittings with brass brush (lots of corrosion) and installed the new MC. Put in a little brake fluid, to check for small leaks, especially at the splice I made. Nothing. Filled the brake fluid to the MAX line. No leaks.


Not sure if it was smart, but I decided to pump the brakes with the car turned off. Straight to the floor. Pumped a few more times. Same thing. I was able to do it with my finger! I guess the booster would be working, since the brake pedal rises instantly(?). Put the car in "On position" and pumped a few times. Same thing, but eventually the pedal would get harder to push initially but it would still go straight to the floor. I decided to let the car run for a few minutes to charge the battery and to let the car do what it needs to do. I did NOT drive it. Brakes went straight to the floor. Brake fluid level barely moved (less than MAX). No visible leaks at MC fittings and splice and nothing underneath car. Turned car off. Pumped brakes again and again, it would initially feel some resistance but pedal still went straight to floor after a certain point of pressing down. I couldn't bleed brakes, because at this point it was pitch black out and I didn't have anyone to assist me. Decided to call it a night and I will bleed brakes tomorrow or the following day.




I made sure to use 8, 10, 11, 12 mm flare nut wrenches where needed and I disconnected the battery (probably not needed, but better safe than sorry) when changing the Master Cylinder. I also made sure I had brake fluid in the reservoir when bleeding brakes.


When bleeding and pumping brakes, should I have reservoir cap tight or cracked loose?

I'm not sure what to do. Any suggestions?

[Slow-But-Fast]

Still no leaks. Bled the brakes today (August 28th) several times. What looked like clear mucus, came out of rear lines and alittle on the front lines. Still kind of soft. I know that my Driver rear drum brake is not fully engaging. I think the adjuster is getting kicked off some how, because that side also doesn't seem to completely prevent me from moving the wheel when I pull the emergency brake (which I adjusted) and when the rear of the car is lifted off the ground. Brakes feel hard after several pumps when the car is off. When the car is on, that hardness lessens and I get delayed braking. I drove it today, and its fine given enough time and distance. Not the kind of fast braking I was looking for. Maybe the soft braking is normal? Maybe Im just not use to the 'smoothness' compared to the jerking I was use to for 15,000+ miles.


Any thoughts of making that soft braking alittle harder and having a better response time?