'04 Aveo Hatch - blown head gasket - drive until it dies or sell now?

My sister bought an '04 Hatchback for $300 with 120k miles from a friend. Spent another $600 or so to get a couple tires, new windshield and work (unsure what) to get it through yearly state inspection in Virginia (it passed). Check engine light came on and her mechanic says the car has a blown head gasket. She has very limited funds and cannot afford the heavy repair cost. Should she sell it now (with full disclosure) and try to get her money back out of it or drive it until it completely dies and then sell it? I'm thinking sell now.

She should at least have it looked at by another shop, and ask what OBD code(s) was set. Our Aveos are notorious for oil leaking from the valve cover gasket, and someone might just guess that the HG is on the way out, by the amount of oil that drips down the block. The HGs on these engines don't often blow, unless there is an overheat (which does sometimes happen due to hairline cracking in the stupid plastic thermostat). The CEL could be caused by something much less serious, so it's definitely worth getting another professional opinion, especially if it's basically running fine.

If the headgasket is bad its probably running noticably worse than before. If it isn't running bad just bring it to an autoparts store and have the codes read and tell us what the codes are.

Here are some notes from my sister's mechanic:
SOME CODES: DCTs, PO3OO, PO700, P1781
ENGINE MISFIRE(A VALVE SEALING CONCERN) It's sluggish on hills and highways

Here is the info:
(NEEDED)
HEAD GASKET SET
VALVE COVER GASKET
INTAKE VALVES
EXHAUST VALVES
VALVE SEALS
(SOME OTHER COSTS)
SPARK PLUGS
REMOVE CYL HEAD TO REPLACE ALL VALVES AND SEAL
DIAGNOSE ENGINE WITH SCAN TOOL
MACHINE SHOP LABOR(DONE IN AN OUTSIDE SHOP) $1,000

Was this everything the mechanic wrote? Maybe he did a compression/leak down test to diagnose the valve problem - IDK. But, if so he should have noted that, along with compression numbers. If not, it's nothing but a guess and could just as easily be spark plugs,wires, coil, or a bunch of other, relatively inexpensive things. But regardless of that, the thing that jumps off the page from this information is the P0700, which is the non-specific transmission code. It means that one or more specific codes were set, and are available via a scan tool capable of reading the TCM. This code means that there is a reasonable chance the transmission is toast, and will also need to be replaced. It's a major disservice to list a 1,000 repair estimate without mentioning that there may also be another 2K or so needed for a tranny replacement (in fairness, perhaps he did mention that to her).
It might be worth calling a couple transmission shops in your area and ask what they charge to read TCM codes, and give a diagnosis. There is a good chance the end is near for this Aveo, because it's almost definitely going to be a fairly big $$ tranny/solenoid repair. And unfortunately with these codes, no one will buy it, and she will only get salvage value for this poor thing :(. So the final answer will probably be just choose the drive-it-till-it-dies option, and then take whatever the boneyard is willing to give for it.

you have two things to think about here:

1. with that list of "needed" repairs, it would not be running well enough to drive until it dies. it would be dead.

2. even if all those repairs were necessary, can she "cash out" and get another car for less than the $1000 difference? Or is she going to give up on owning a car?


in my opinion, with those specific codes, here is what to do. Start the car and let it idle. watch the temp just incase the head gasket is actually bad. But mist water out of a spray bottle onto the spark plug wires and coil pack while it is running (don't touch anything) it is best to do this in the dark so you can easily see the sparks. This car mostly needs wires, and potentially a coil pack. An easy repair you could attempt yourself, and costs less than $100.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

you have two things to think about here:

1. with that list of "needed" repairs, it would not be running well enough to drive until it dies. it would be dead.

2. even if all those repairs were necessary, can she "cash out" and get another car for less than the $1000 difference? Or is she going to give up on owning a car?


in my opinion, with those specific codes, here is what to do. Start the car and let it idle. watch the temp just incase the head gasket is actually bad. But mist water out of a spray bottle onto the spark plug wires and coil pack while it is running (don't touch anything) it is best to do this in the dark so you can easily see the sparks. This car mostly needs wires, and potentially a coil pack. An easy repair you could attempt yourself, and costs less than $100.

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What's your opinion about the P0700? In other vehicles I'm familiar with, this code is more often the kiss of death for the tranny. Are the less costly possibilities for this code more common for Aveos - stuff like sensors, connectors, or wiring perhaps?

Great feedback guys. I sent a note to my sister asking for more details. I recall she said her mechanic said $3000 but I know nothing more. More to come...

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Originally Posted by avguy

What's your opinion about the P0700? In other vehicles I'm familiar with, this code is more often the kiss of death for the tranny. Are the less costly possibilities for this code more common for Aveos - stuff like sensors, connectors, or wiring perhaps?

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on the aveo if the coil pack goes bad, and is misfiring, then the rpm signal to the transmission is lost. and sets the p1781 code.
the p0700 is a general code that can be set from the car continuing to be driven without the rpm signal. IT does not mean there are no other problems. but with the information provided this diagnosis is accurate. it most likelt need wires and a coilpack.

More feedback just received. Got copy of estimate and talk with shop on phone. They do NOT think the head gasket is toast (my mistake).

They checked plugs wires (saw no arching) and replaced plugs. Car misfires a bit on start up (chug-chug noises for a couple seconds), on hills and a bit on the highway - sister says it feels like the car struggles to find next gear (engine whining). They were going to do a tune up but they noted the codes (PO3OO, PO700, P1781) and found TSB 05-06-01-030D. Shop said this bulletin suggests valve guides and seals need to be replaced (Labor: 700 + Parts: 1500 + Sublet: 1000 = $3200). Before doing a tune-up they contacted my sister and said this could be a $3200 job.

Do you think it's possible new wires and a coil pack could resolve those codes?

We also talked about the tranny - he drove and felt nothing odd with it - maybe the P0700 is occurring because of the misfiring (misfire causing the engine and tranny to be a bit out of synch). Shop also said no signs of oil leaks, no smoking and no overheating. Engine: 4-1600 1.6L DOHC, Trans: AUTO

To me it almost sounds like the shop is just looking at the codes and assuming the TSB is 100% accurate without really knowing what's going on. I trust the shop and think they're reputable. But another opinion might be the next option.

Shop agreed with me that selling now for $1000 (what has been put into it) and buying a used Honda or Toyota might make the most sense (sorry Aveo lovers).

Thoughts?

a couple other things..the compression on all 4 cylinders was all between 181 and 185 (good) and the plug wires and coil pack look old (probably original - 120k miles)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit

on the aveo if the coil pack goes bad, and is misfiring, then the rpm signal to the transmission is lost. and sets the p1781 code.
the p0700 is a general code that can be set from the car continuing to be driven without the rpm signal. IT does not mean there are no other problems. but with the information provided this diagnosis is accurate. it most likelt need wires and a coilpack.

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My '05 is a manual but my daughter's '06 is an auto, so I will file that piece of info for future reference - thanks!

And to the OP, she has a tough case there because there are multiple possibilities, some not too expensive, but others off the charts. And forget about putting over 3K into that engine - you can have a rebuilt engine with a year warranty installed for less than that. As a DIY guy, I would have no problem hanging on wires and a coil for a quick fix try. But that would probably cost $200 or so at shop rates, and I don't know how much sense that makes, given her limited funds. Maybe PR will reply again after your new info and give his opinion about what to do next. Good luck to her in any case!

I'm wondering if any one has any final thoughts on this thread?

This weekend, without taking any action, the check engine light is no longer displaying. My initial note about blown head gasket was wrong. Car has good compression, no smoke, no overheating, no signs of oil leaking, cold A/C. Still has hesitation on the highway and hills and a bit of rough idling on start up. Plugs have been replaced and I'm suggesting replacing the coil pack (aftermarket $80 and DIY installation). If that doesn't do the trick I'll suggest replacing the plug wires.

I did a bit of reading and it sounds like the timing belt needs to be replaced before 60k miles. At 120k I would hope that it's already been done twice but wouldn't be surprised if it's never been replaced.

If it has good compression its not a valve problem, because that would cause low compression.

I would start with the plug wires. Some people have had issues with them in the past. This shop sounds less than steller, so I'm not sure I'd trust the diagnosis of the wires. Wires are pretty cheap and easy to do. I haven't heard as many issues with the coil packs.

That being said, if you want I have an extra OEM ignition coil from when I put a new engine in my car after the previous owner snapped the timing belt and grenaded the engine. I would sell it dirt cheap cause I don't need it.

I've just read this thread and your last post has me wondering.....Did you or the mechanic ever check the timing? I haven't worked on our AVeo yet (2007 auto, owned four weeks) but I've seen other timing belt engines skip teeth on the belt (forward and backward) and keep running. By description your engine sounds like it could possibly be retarded. I would suggest using a timing light to check initial timing at idle. You'll blow another hundred at least putting a timing belt component kit in it though, if you do the labor yourself. I will be doing this in a couple weeks, as our Aveo just crossed 120K..... Good luck to you though!

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Originally Posted by Rob D

I'm wondering if any one has any final thoughts on this thread?

This weekend, without taking any action, the check engine light is no longer displaying. My initial note about blown head gasket was wrong. Car has good compression, no smoke, no overheating, no signs of oil leaking, cold A/C. Still has hesitation on the highway and hills and a bit of rough idling on start up. Plugs have been replaced and I'm suggesting replacing the coil pack (aftermarket $80 and DIY installation). If that doesn't do the trick I'll suggest replacing the plug wires.

I did a bit of reading and it sounds like the timing belt needs to be replaced before 60k miles. At 120k I would hope that it's already been done twice but wouldn't be surprised if it's never been replaced.

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Didn't understand that you have a DIY option. That being the case, I would definitely do the wires before the coil. Reason being that these early Aveos are notorious for leaking oil past the VC gasket into the plug wells. This tends to rot out wires much faster than normal. If the new wires fix the roughness, then the next thing to do is replace the VC gasket to eliminate that leak.
Also urgent is to replac the plastic thermostat with a metal one, if not already done.
Removing the top timing belt cover will allow a look at the markings on the belt. Those markings may tell you if the belt is the original factory belt. A good mechanic might have put a sticker on the timing cover showing mileage at replacement.

replace the wires. if that makes it better but does not solve the entire issue, then do the coil pack.

the more likely the misfire sets the codes. DO NOT DO THE VALVE JOB! if compression is in the 180 the valves are fine.

The thing about buying a $1000 honda.. it will be junk too. From the sounds of what you have, a $300 aveo that now has $700 into it from a so so garage (good honest shops are hard to find, but this one is honest but not necessarily good). But your $1000 and then the timing belt and coil pack will leave you with a fully services $1500 car that will out perform a $1000 honda that will run into all the same issues.

If the light went out the plugs have "helped" the misfire issue, but that does not mean it is solves. bad wires will cause the good plugs to go bad quickly. so do at least that and keep driving it, IF the light comes on again, then do the coil pack..

spend the money getting the timing belt done.

If it really is just a head gasket issue, you may want to try a relatively inexpensive fix like Head Gasket Sealer | Head Gasket Sealant | BlueDevil or some other over the counter fix before dropping that kind of money on such an inexpensive car. For the most part, the better of these sealing products offer little downside, but if you read up on the reviews many people have prolonged the lives of their cars by a few years with this stuff. If you have a higher end car I wouldn't mess with it, but for a $300 car, that's exactly the type of situations products like Blue Devil and Bar's were designed to fix in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by Rob D

My sister bought an '04 Hatchback for $300 with 120k miles from a friend. Spent another $600 or so to get a couple tires, new windshield and work (unsure what) to get it through yearly state inspection in Virginia (it passed). Check engine light came on and her mechanic says the car has a blown head gasket. She has very limited funds and cannot afford the heavy repair cost. Should she sell it now (with full disclosure) and try to get her money back out of it or drive it until it completely dies and then sell it? I'm thinking sell now.

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I am new to Aveos, but not new to cars. Replace the valve cover gasket, and the wires, if that does not fix, replace the coil pack. This should take care of the problem. If not, you are just in it a tune up. And that is a good thing with the current milage. What plugs did they use? I hope factory iridiums, or at least AC Delco platinums. Other plugs may not work well. And based on the milage of the car, the timing belt is due. This is a must if you have no info on the last time it was done. It should be replaced every 60k. So it should already be on it's second. If it is on it's original one, it is a ticking time bomb, and needs to be replaced asap. Either way if you have no knowledge of the last time it was done, the time is now. My understanding is the water pump is driven off the timing belt. So if they make a kit with everything from the belt to the water pump, you should get that.
Good luck