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Is anyone seriously considering putting a turbo on their aveo? Can't say the thought hasn't crossed my mind. :D
Anyway, I thought it would be good to discuss what the options are as far as engine management systems, turbos, manifolds, etc.
What turbos bolt up to xiogary's manifolds?Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
What piggybacks work well with the etecs?
Quote:
Originally Posted by xiaogary
As far as piggy backs it depends on how much you want to control, boost, and adjustibilty etc you want. Guys are running low boost seem to get away with a manual boost controller as boost goes up more management is required. You could run an apexi set up or buy a standalone and run it on to of the factory system as a piggy back. Depending on how your emissions laws are you can easily go full standalone and control everything for a couple hundred dollars if you use megasquirt and install it yourself. Even then though you should plane on dyno tuning, etc.
I did do some reading on daewootech and I guess I'm of the mind that a lot of those guys are a bit crazy, or just don't know what they're doing (some do, some don't, its a very apparent line). They go spend money on new turbos and manifolds but no good management systems just to have their engine blow or to only run 4 psi. I just find that dumb. So I say spend a couple hundred more and do it right. You really want fuel and ignition control. You want a wideband o2 and egt sensor to tune the car (or go to a dyno that has them). Anything less and your setup is not going to give you the power its capable of, and there is a very good chance you'll harm your engine.
I personally like the piggyback setups. Half the tuning is already done for you, cold start and all that is taken care of already. So, I guess I was thinking a greddy emanage (blue or ultimate) would work out nicely. The blue isn't too expensive anymore and relatively easy to find used.
The megasquirt is a decent and cheap setup, but how much sensor swapping needs to be done?
existance on daewootech has a turbo 2.0l... All he is using for engine management is an eManage Blue to control fuel only. Apparently the stock ecu timing is pretty good for boosting.
Thats not sayin too much for the stock tune! :D
this is why i am not turbo yet because i agree with you 90%Quote:
Originally Posted by Daox
The other 10% is because i am not against a big turbo on a stock long block that is readily available because its the cheapest part to replace.. and to the same spec= tune ir once have the weak point the engine, so if something fails you throw in a new long block that the rest of the system is already tuned for, and repeat. this would be good for an ABA vw because they are only $75 at the yard with a 90 day warranty and tend to be round 75k miles. In most applications i see fail its a component like the turbo that goes, and then blows the expensively built engine.
Honestly, I would never use a T3 Turbo. Just not a fan. If I were to ever add a turbo to my 09', I would probably do something simple like Rabbit said and adapt a 1.8T harness with a K04 turbo to start. This would be a great platform to start from for cheap. Then when you rip the motor out to make it a little monster you can upgrade to a T04E style Garrett GT3076R...Ah, my mouth is watering... 8)
I was thinking of a few different turbos that would work nicely. Basically anything off a ~2.0L from the past decade or two. Here are a few.
T25 (eclipse, talon)
RHB5 (probe, mx6)
TD04 (wrx)
ko3/ ko3s vw turbo
highly available for cheap.
Yeah, I think the K04's came on the Audi's? I might be wrong on that though....
general rule is ko3 is on the 150 hp, ko3s is on the 180, and the ko4 is in the 225 audi TT and Sline A3 (non US market).
There is some overlap with the ko3 and the ko3s though, buy one? engine code.
either way depending on how you were setting up the engine any of the 3 would work, the ko3s is probably the best of the three (in my opinion) for the aveo 1.6, But if you are going to put our own turbo kit together, and buying a new turbo, i would go for ball bearing v-clamp , or some other design turbo. I would have no issue over using the ko3s though.
It's a good starting point if you think you might want to upgrade later. In my opinion anyways.
I'd like to keep the ideas flowing here.
I was looking at things last night. I had my engine on the stand, so I set the head on it real quick, bolted the oil pan back up, and thew the exhaust manifold on. I just so happen to have a T25 off an eclipse laying around that I ended up not using on another project. I don't see any reason why that thing couldn't be bolted right up to the stock exhaust manifold with a ~1" adapter plate between. This would make for an extremely cheap turbo manifold. And, IMO the stock manifold is a pretty nice piece. I inspected it to find no casting flash or any obstructions that would impede flow. I was pleasantly surprised. I can't speak for the ecotec engines, but this was the case with my etec.
The problem I did see is that if you have AC, there would be no room for the exhaust piping. In this case, you'd probably need an aftermarket manifold to move the turbo to the driver's side more to get some clearance.
I'll try to get some pics of what I'm talking about so this makes a little more sense.
One of the bigger problems with turboing an Aveo is the position of the oil filter there in the front...it's kinda in the way.
I don't recall the filter being in the way. Of course it was not on the block when I checked I don't think, haha. I'll check that out though. If it is in the way you could always get a relocation kit.
there are filter relocation kits and if i recall correctly they are only $20-40Quote:
Originally Posted by Wolfman AK907
Alright, I got some pics. I was able to thread in one bolt to the turbo flange, but I used wire and a block of wood to kind of position the turbo close to where it would be. You can see its off, but not by much.
http://aveoclub.net/pictures/aveoturbo001.JPG
http://aveoclub.net/pictures/aveoturbo002.JPG
Looks like the turbo may need to be clocked a bit. No biggie there.
http://aveoclub.net/pictures/aveoturbo003.JPG
The only concern I have is that the oil drain back will be too low at this point. You can see the slope of the oil pan which I assume is level when the engine is in the car. This doesn't leave a ton of vertical distance for the drain back.
http://aveoclub.net/pictures/aveoturbo004.JPG
I did check, the oil filter has more than enough room to unscrew. It only comes out about 1/2 to 3/4" before you can remove it.
http://aveoclub.net/pictures/aveoturbo005.JPG
Never mind turboing the Aveo... is that a Jaguar I see outside the garage in one of those pics!??
V12 Aveo!! :mrgreen:
lol, the V12 is about as long as the entire Aveo. :P
(BTW, yes, in the way background in the 4th pic is my 1973 XJ12)
I gotta say Im not too familiar with the 1.6's turbo capabilities as most of my research and measurements have been done for the 2.0L
From what I can tell seting up the turbo like this could work, worse case scenario is an oil filter relocation kit, it is kind of in the way but as you said, if you can take it out easily then leave it there. The oil return seems a bit low, you could use a small pump to push the oil back into the pan or maybe a smaller turbo would yeild better clearance.
My prefered engine management is Megasquirt. You do need a new coolant temp and intake temp sensors that work with Megasquirt, they are GM sensors and the part numbers are found on megamanual.com. The other sensors should be readable by the unit. The nice thing is you can get rid of the MAP sensor because it has a built in one.
So this would delete the cat, and it would only work with the short header, not the long cat-delete 4-1 header from xiaogary, right?
that is the stock header, xaiogory also makes a header that retains the cat, or can easily be turned into a turbo manifold
I know he does, hunter. But since I already got his long 4-1 header just wanted to see if its doable on that but from the looks of it I could say that I would have to get a different header to make it work. Or go some other route to keep this header (i.e. nitrous or supercharger :shock: ) 8)
you could do a remote turbo, not "ideal" but it would work. newer v8 cars stick turbos under the seats.. you would only need to go under the intake on the exhaust up sweep and put a heat shield to protect the intake and such.
Interesting idea... Would a local shop know what I'm talking about if I told them that I want to have a "remote turbo" installed? Or is it something I'll have to learn/figure out on my own?
Good luck finding room for a remote turbo.Quote:
Originally Posted by serega12
Nitro it is :shock:
newer drift cars are moving the turbos to the back, trying to maintain 50-50 weight if possible, still a new thing though, ill buy your header if you want the other one :wink:
Quote:
Originally Posted by serega12
If I were to actually do this, I'd put a CAT after the turbo. No big deal. The whole exhaust would need to be custom made anyways.
after some point (not sure of the year) the aveo is supposed to have a second cat anyhow. i know the 09 states there is a second cat right behind the k frame upturn..
would there be a practical purpose for a cat (to keep the back pressure or something) besides it being emission ready where required?
You mean besides keeping the air we all breathe cleaner? :P
If you remove your CAT you will have problems with the rear O2 sensor seeing that there is no CAT and it will turn on the check engine light.
Not if you extend it with the non-fouler method. :P And yes, besides keeping the air clean... :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Daox
i stopped believing in air pollution when carbon dioxide was added to the list of air pollutants.. because just shows they chopped down too many damn trees, that would have recycled it into oxygen.
Or aircraft dumping fuel (anywhere around 1000 to 2000lbs, approx. 150 to 300 US gallons) into the air to prevent unnecessary stress on landing gear struts and airframe... of course it dissipates into the air and never reaches the ground... :-k [-( and everyone freaks out if you spill a spoonful of fuel at a gas station...
Yes that made me laugh quite a bit, as CO2 has no "greenhouse" effect on the atmosphere. They probly just said that because there is alot of it present in the air.Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
But during the prehistoric era of the earth, there was way way more CO2 present then today, probly 3-5 times as much.
Global Warming is just BS to make money.