intake ?

[reddemonx92]

come on hunter even u can tell northernaveo was wrong on this topic. which is why multiple people jumped on it cus he kept puttin lies and callin people out

[oscare003]

What did i miss? any one selling an inake? all i got is the filter

[LarsBud]

Air Intakes or not!

As we all know restrictive flow reduces performance, this is for your intake to your exost. This is the first thing any racing enthusiast learns and the first thing we fix. Every lip, every sharp bend or dead spot reduces flow.
Have you ever seen a factory air box and a dragster or a racecar, I think not. They are open to the air to allow maximum air draw for the engine. Even high performance production cars come with none restrictive air intakes right from the factory.
Know you can get into wish is better a short or a cold air intake, but that’s a different story.

[MetroMPG]

Mods and Admins I apologize for this small outburst on my part, but this was allowed to go too far.

Just FYI, there was also some behind the scenes discussion going on (via PM) with the person in question. Direct, private contact often sorts things out without having to resort to a ban - that's my experience. Obviously it didn't work in this case, so the extra time spent doing that caused the crap in the thread to drag on a bit longer.

[mikedudley17]

Im so pissed I missed this.
Props to Rabbit. +1million-gajillion respect

Im sure that there are plenty of old threads on this discussion that a simple search could have solved, if not here then on other forums. Being that all cars are different, even if they are the same models/motor, they all react different because of your driving style, how well you can actually drive, and environment. Most car manufacturers add restrictions to both the intake and exhaust to make the drive more comfortable for just every day, grocery getting, family vehicles. Removing the restrictions will almost always add hp to the vehicle to a point. Please note that in some cases you can have things "to open." I was on some jeep forums and ran across this letter that a K&N representative sent to a knowledge seeker:


THis is the letter response from K&N:


Dear Eric,



This is a common question that comes up, but unfortunately there is no simple answer. At K&N, we actually do not do any testing for fuel economy, so we never claim that it will always improve. We can only rely on customer testimonials that in some cases it does improve. But as you have said, sometimes it can worsen. Typically though, the worst case-scenario is that the mileage will stay the same.



The difficult thing with fuel economy is that there are too many variables to account for. Different driving styles, road conditions, vehicle components (such as tires and pressure) all play a large role. Also consider this: It is common that different owners of the same stock vehicle will report varying mileage, even if they have similar driving routines. Some always seem to get more mileage for whatever reason, while others use more fuel.



An intake system does not force anymore air than what the engine can pull in. Think of an engine as an air pump, and it suffers certain losses (pumping losses) on both the intake and exhaust side. Our intakes provide lesser restriction on the intake side, so the energy that was normally going towards the intake pumping losses, is now regained as useable power. It is getting the same total volume of air, but it doesn’t have to work as hard to get it. A lot of people ask why do the manufacturers not do this? They are trying to appeal to a majority of the population who are willing to sacrifice some horsepower for a quiet engine, and that is why the stock intakes are designed to detune the engine in favor or sound suppression.



Whether a vehicle has an MAF, or is using an IAT and pressure sensor, these systems adjust quickly to provide the ideal A/F ratio. So theoretically, if you were to drive the same as when the vehicle was stock, the engine is making slightly more power throughout the range (running more efficient) and could improve in mileage. Again though, driving style comes into play. If someone drives a little bit harder, or they jab the throttle a lot more to hear the increased sound of the engine (which most K&N owners love!), then their system is not going to be running efficiently.



One other factor could also be different exhausts that are used. If a vehicle has too little backpressure with an aftermarket exhaust, it is sacrificing low-end power and torque for better responsiveness at higher rpm’s. This is further added to with a low restriction intake, because now the engine has nothing to work against. Imagine being on a treadmill that has no resistance. Sure it would be easy to walk, but you wouldn’t be creating any work because there is no force to act against. So, if someone uses an intake kit with a very-free flowing exhaust, but they drive 50% city/50% highway, they will be using more fuel at low rpm’s if they are trying to accelerate as fast as they normally do. The same vehicle with an intake and a stock exhaust or moderate one, however, may see an improvement overall in fuel economy.



One last note. A lot of times, customers neglect to reset their computer by having the battery disconnected from the negative cable for at least one hour. This causes the vehicle to use old, stored values for different fuel trim levels (basically, its fuel-use history that it compares to and then determines what would be most appropriate for a situation). This is often the case when people suffer a large drop in mileage after installing a kit. Performing this step often results in their mileage returning to normal and sometimes improving.



I hope this adds some more information to your discussion. This is not really the stance of K&N, as we have never tested for fuel economy so I can’t really speak on there behalf. These are just my findings from working with a lot of different vehicles, and also doing vehicle emissions research for a lab in college.

Thanks for writing,

Shaun McClure
Technical Support
K&N Engineering


Hope this helps seal the discussion.

[AveoRob]

C'mon guys, everyone knows a vornado is the only way to go for an intake to add 15-20 HP and increase fuel economy by 15-20% simultaneously

[petrified.rabbit]

That letter is accurate but as a read you need to take two statements separated, which he did buta novice reader might confuse them. The comment about reseting the computer is to force learn the change, otherwise it will learn itself over 3-5 closed loop cycles. During that time is when you will experince less mpg or no change in power. However even with the change when you actually do go into closed loop the vehicle adapts (or should) immediately as that is when itruns straight off sensor readings and the "driver learned" fuel map.

[petrified.rabbit]

Honestly, this thread should be tossed anyone skimming for and answer
might read the one wrong post and not the whole story.

[Daox]

That is a good point rabbit. I'll pick through it and get the gems in the rough though. There was some good info posted.

[Thymeclock]

I've never tinkered with redesigning an air intake before, but I might consider trying it.

My practical questions are: Without a box, how do you keep the filter clean? And, more importantly, how do you keep it DRY? (Or does everyone who has done this mod live in southern California, where it never rains? )