Time to tackle the timing belt and water pump...

Following the guides:
Timing belt change on 2006 Aveo LS: My new detailed write-up
and
Timing belt

And I'm using the Lisle 36880 DOC lock tool, but I must be doing something wrong...

The only way I could get it to fit was like this:
Attachment 8417
where one tooth of the tool is up under the belt (Yeah. I know the cams are not aligned...had to turn things to get the tool tooth into this location.)

When I try to square up the tool it fits in three teeth, but not the fourth
Attachment 8418
see
Attachment 8419

I guess three in and one on the top of a cam tooth should hold it, but I'd sure feel better if all four were locked in place.

Thoughts?

Whoa - the 4 tabs on the tool go inside the sprockets, not into the cam teeth. Then the tool is turned until the slack is gone. You will now need to carefully check the teeth which had metal-to-metal contact to make sure they weren't nicked (which might eventually chew up the new belt).

I used one of those tools for the last timing belt job I did, and it was junk. It snapped in half as I was slipping the new belt on.

All you people and your fancy tools.

Back in my day six months ago I used a wrench!
It was hard work but it built character! >=T

Doh! I had in my head it was a compression tool, not and expansion tool... Of course I could have just read the packaging. I am shamed...

The sprocket looks OK. I was careful in my placement. I thought that seemed like a risky play putting it in the teeth.

Thanks!

So I got the old belt off and here are a few tips that I've not seen in any write-up that I've learned:

1) Loosen the timing chamber back cover BEFORE locking the cams--there are two retaining bolts that are only accessible between the tines of the cam sprockets and to access them you have to be able to rotate the cams to grant access, cause when they are aligned to the marks, these little beggars are obstructed! This needs to be done cause the back cover is one piece unit that you'll welcome the added flexibility when trying to get the water pump out. I managed, but it was a @#$#@!

2) Those dang 5mm pump retainers are snug! I used a normal allen wrench to get them out (no special tools required) I just put the closed end of my 10mm wrench over L portion and made a little cheater bar that broke them free quite easily. Loosen them slowly because...

3) Remember to shift the drain pan BEFORE this step where you loosen the water pump bolts--I ended up slopping around in a small slick of antifreeze most of the rest of the afternoon cause I thought I'd drained the bulk already from the radiator and then forgot to push it further back under fast enough.

4) Confirm and double confirm that you're going to get metal tensioner/idler from the manufacturer. I did double check and still ended up with plastic when I opened the package. Grrr. I put them in anyways as since I had them. The original equipment was in surprisingly good condition: timing belt was GM-DAEWOO and looked as good as new, OEM tensioner/idler were on par with what I was replacing them with if not better (the bearings ran freely...), and the water pump looked good as new save one small discoloration near the rubber seal. The pump seal was smashed flat as expected, so a new pump seal would have probably been the only thing needing replacement, but better safe than sorry.

So still need to attach the crank pulley and the serpentine belt, but feeling very good about getting the job finished soon. I'm going to get those in place and then go through the valve seal replacement before I button it all back up.

Thanks again to those who've gone before for the excellent guides and for the tool tips here.

So did that tool help? The last belt I did I wound up yanking the cam pulleys off to get the rear housing off. Was fun getting everything lined up but doing the chalk marks on the old belt bailed me out in the end. Far as I know the housing has to come off to get open shot at the waterpump, otherwise these cam holders are slick.

Derek

PS has anyone been able to source the alleged steel timing pulley/tensioners? I can only source plastic units, but Napa did have steel serpentine tensioner.

Yes. Most definitely the tool helped. There was no lash or spin that occurred when taking the tension off. Everything stayed put as it should.

SO I would definitely loosen the rear housing (through the cams) PRIOR to alignment and locking them down. Because you won't get in there otherwise. I could get a 1/4" 10mm set in the cam slots when the cam itself was not in the way. That would have relieved SO much pressure on my housing--but I just torqued the old water pump out. The worst is that it took an hour to do it. Sheesh. I was expecting as much of a fight putting it back in only it took much less time.

One questions for the pro's:
Both write-ups talk about about when retightening the crank to 70ft-lbs(95Nm) that there is a "turn 30 degrees and then a turn 15 degrees" but what is that about? Why are we turning it? What do we do WHEN we turn it? is it just to see if it spins? I don't get it.

I just torqued it down to 70 at TDC and then 30 and 15 more, but doesn't seem to have made any difference.

Not a professional mechanic, but here's my understanding of how this works. Torque done using a wrench is an approximation of tightness, and will vary by fastener surface cleanliness and lubrication, along with accuracy of the torque wrench. Torque-to-angle however will always be the same, assuming that an angle guage is used. So the idea is to do the "approximate" 70 lb torque first, and then the "exact" 45 angular torque to insure at least that part of it will always be done to spec. I have no idea how accurate this bolt tightening truly needs to be, considering that lots of guys (including some mechanics) just hammer it back on with a gun.

When I did a Honda Civic timing belt a few years ago, the Honda manual also specified a torque-to-angle spec, but additionally provided an alternative standard (wrench) torque as well. And they also described exactly which section of the bolt/washer was supposed to be oiled, adding more consistency to the task. They obviously put more effort into this than the Aveo engineer did.

Now what you wrote has me puzzled about exactly what you did. Can you describe the procedure that you used? I'm sure there's no problem with whatever you did, considering it's still running well. Just curiosity I guess.

Is this where I blush at my ignorance? :-)

I applied the 70lb torque with someone holding the brake, then released the break and rotated the crank 30 degrees and applied the brakes again, retried the torque, released the brake and turned 15 degrees and checked it again.

Nothing else made sense to me. Sigh... Ok. so I go watch video of yet another special tool to tighten that in. I'm not sure i get why there is a difference between using this angle in addition to the torque setting doesn't that just equate to a higher torque?

Clearly I've done it incorrectly, but now I wonder if it is worth going back in to re-torque it?

its a stretch bolt, you don't turn the crank, looks up torque to yield bolts or stretch bolts on google.


thanks for the laugh though. (also you don't reuse/re-torque stretch bolts, so you are probably ok anyhow).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by TimE

Is this where I blush at my ignorance? :-)

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No problem admitting to a mistake - I've made more than my share, and everyone else reading this has made a bunch as well. Your Aveo is running, you saved a pile of $$, and learned a bunch of new stuff. What's not to like about that?

Quote:

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I applied the 70lb torque with someone holding the brake, then released the break and rotated the crank 30 degrees and applied the brakes again, retried the torque, released the brake and turned 15 degrees and checked it again.

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If you used the same torque setting, then all of this resulted in a net torque of 70 lbs.

Quote:

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Nothing else made sense to me. Sigh... Ok. so I go watch video of yet another special tool to tighten that in. I'm not sure i get why there is a difference between using this angle in addition to the torque setting doesn't that just equate to a higher torque?

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If by special tool you mean an angle gauge, most of the folks who DIY this (including myself) draw angle lines on the crank pulley and crank pulley bolt, and use them as the guide. Perhaps it's off by a degree or two, but I can't imagine that ever making a difference.
And yes, the extra angular torque does result in a (significantly) higher final torque - the one that the engineer calculated is correct for this pulley bolt.

Quote:

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Clearly I've done it incorrectly, but now I wonder if it is worth going back in to re-torque it?

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If it's going to weigh on your mind, you could re-torque it. Or alternatively you could (using increasing torque wrench settings) check to see what the current torque of the bolt is. Then if it's still 70, you could apply the extra angular torque. But if the torque is higher now (it might have tightened up while running), then you would either need to guess a lower angular torque to add, or undo the bolt and start from the beginning.

Yup, I learned a ton and had a good time at it too.

I thought it would all be the same torque. I guess I could tweak it higher, but I really don't care too much. Worst case is it will start making a terrible ruckus and I'll immediately suspect that as the issue.

I'm sure I'll be able to sleep not worrying about it. I'm good to go for now.

Thanks for the clarifications!

Tim, thanks for the cam tool tip.

About the whole 'torque to x, then rotate x degrees, then another x degrees' had me scratching my head too, and I am a 30+ year retired engine builder, never seen THAT before ever. (ok so I am old!) So I did what I have always done on these and just gave the bolt a couple good zaps with my impact and called it good LOL. About 1,500 miles and no issue, so it's good to go IMO. - I am glad you brought it up! That one did have me wondering if I might loose the only bolt holding on the balancer. I will have to try the 'angles' when I torque the head bolts on my next valve job. This method seems it would be more accurate.