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About LinkBacksThanks for saying this so well. I could not have said it better.Originally Posted by RicochetRandy
It's encouraging to see that not everyone is lacking in reading and comprehension skills.
Thanks for saying this so well. I could not have said it better.
It's encouraging to see that not everyone is lacking in reading and comprehension skills.
Well being as I foolishly left the dealer and drove a few hundred miles before deciding to research the matter, they could easily tell me to piss off. Granted there's no reason that such a short drive should wear out supposedly new fluid, but on my own, I have to way to prove I didn't do something silly to it myself. So the way I see my options:
-buy a whole new flush (or fluid change) from someone else, for $150-200 (more if I demand OEM fluid) Not much cheaper to DIY
-$25 test to prove CHEMICALLY and irrefutably that a change was not done, or was only partially done, and that no other factors contributed to the greying, then get the dealer to redo all services, under my supervision, for free, under threat of legal action
Bonus to doing the test is verifying that the radiator/transcooler is not leaking, which I could get repaired while I still have warranty. If something like that exists and caused even slight damage to the trans, I could argue to get that replaced too. Granted the warranty company won't want to suck up that expense, but once again, with the evidence in hand, they'd have no choice but to inspect it and verify the problem.
So in short, no, I don't see a $25 lab test as a waste of money. While I appreciate the "tough love" and admit I was stupid to have left in the first place, well we live and we learn. I'm going to have to deal with the situation as it stands.
You are misinformed. You can do a drain and refill yourself and it will cost relatively little - for only the cost of the fluid itself. If I recall correctly, doing a drain and refill will use about 2 quarts.
For $25 you can buy a gallon of ATF at Advance auto. Click here. At least you won't be 'throwing good money after bad'. It can only help, and it certainly can't hurt.
A far as I can tell the only place to buy the OEM fluid is the dealer. There is no Type-IV direct equivalent. Sure, every store sells multi-trans compatible fluids, but I have no way of knowing if they truly are equivalent in performance and protection. It could just be a matter of selling a "unique" fluid at an unneeded markup, but I'd rather not experiment on my own car. So the plan was to just let the dealer do things with the proper fluid, and then all the fore-mentioned questions arose. I suppose I could just do the drain and fill a few times over a couple months using the OEM fluid from the parts counter, and yes, potentially save. But should I still be worried about the transcooler/radiator leak issue? Is it really that common? I would think a lab test could spot the trace amounts of mixing before it got bad enough for your eyes to spot it. Or would any amount of mixing be that noticeable? I would think you would see "oil" spots floating in the radiator reservoir if that was the case. If that is common problem I want to get it repaired while I have warranty left.
Search google maps for GM Service centers in your area. Find the one with the best reviews. Tell them nothing of your other visit, only that your tranny fluid is grey and your concerned about a blown head gasket and would like it checked under warranty. They should be able to do a compression check. If they have to do the head gasket, they will have to change the fluid. If they say its ok, you should be fine.
As for getting tranny fluid, I would just use Valvoline Max Life Dex/MERC ATF, but if you really want the best you can have the get Royal Purple MAX ATF. At $15 a quart its expensive as hell, and the highest quality fluid you can get. Of course the cheapest ATF at the gas station would probably be good enough. Tranny fluid (except fords and that goofy type F fluid) just isn't the complicated. For the love of god, don't let the dealer rape you for a GM logoed bottle of cheap tranny fluid.
There is no need to drain and refill multiple times. When you drain the tranny its all gonna come out. Sure there might be a few drops of old left, but a few drops in a couple of quarts just won't make a perceptible difference.
Your attitude toward all of this is one I see so often and it drives me nuts. Dealers make auto work sound so hard and complicated that people are scared to do the work themselves. So they pay a mechanic to do a simple job. To the mechanic makes the 16 year old who doesn't care do the easy stuff while the do something more challenging, and its gets done completely wrong or not at all. The owner frets that if the dealer messed it up, it must REALLY be hard. So they keep going to the dealer. When they have the time and the money. Things are missed, parts wear, and cars die. So they buy a new one from the dealer with a warranty to save money. Meanwhile those of us who change every fluid in the car in 2 hours one Saturday a year are getting 400k miles out of used cars we pick up for a few grand. Don't perpetuate the cycle. Make the dealer (ok a different dealer) do what they owe you, and handle the easy stuff yourself.
LOL, just found this: ATF-0T4 Genuine AISIN Toyota Premium Automatic Transmission Fluid : Amazon.com : Automotive
For $18.25 shipped you can buy 2 quarts of type IV by Aisin, the company who designed and build the transmission. That's more OEM than the GM fluid!
The "quality" isn't any different. It is made to conform to a standard. At $15 per quart you would be paying for a fancier label on the bottle.
No, but it has to be Dexron III at the very least. Not all tranny fluid is the same. It does have to be backward compatible to conform to the manufacturer's original specs. The transaxle in all Aveos was originally designed to use Dexron III. The Dexron line of fluids that followed was upgraded to be a partially synthetic fluid. GM no longer supports Dexron III because of corporate interests.Of course the cheapest ATF at the gas station would probably be good enough. Tranny fluid (except fords and that goofy type F fluid) just isn't the complicated.
Not true. When you drain the pan you are removing only about 1/3 to 1/2 of the entire fluid capacity of the transmission, not including the torque converter. This is why you will need to drain and refill the fluid every few months until the fluid is looking healthy again. It's like doing a blood transfusion - the fluid will need to circulate through the system. Although you are mixing new fluid with the old, eventually this will remove the impurities in the fluid and improve the overall condition of the total volume of liquid. Unlike motor oil which inevitably becomes fouled through use and often drained and discarded, transmission fluid must be kept clean and should look clean. It's essentially a sealed hydraulic system. In a perfect world it wouldn't become degraded. But when it does, it needs to be changed.There is no need to drain and refill multiple times. When you drain the tranny its all gonna come out. Sure there might be a few drops of old left, but a few drops in a couple of quarts just won't make a perceptible difference.
Your last paragraph is a pretty good summation of it.Your attitude toward all of this is one I see so often and it drives me nuts. Dealers make auto work sound so hard and complicated that people are scared to do the work themselves. So they pay a mechanic to do a simple job. To the mechanic makes the 16 year old who doesn't care do the easy stuff while the do something more challenging, and its gets done completely wrong or not at all. The owner frets that if the dealer messed it up, it must REALLY be hard. So they keep going to the dealer. When they have the time and the money. Things are missed, parts wear, and cars die. So they buy a new one from the dealer with a warranty to save money. Meanwhile those of us who change every fluid in the car in 2 hours one Saturday a year are getting 400k miles out of used cars we pick up for a few grand. Don't perpetuate the cycle. Make the dealer (ok a different dealer) do what they owe you, and handle the easy stuff yourself.
Thymeclock - The Royal Purple line was supposed to be snarkey not serious, guess it came off wrong. RP is the crap all the racers love and over priced as hell. But I find it super funny that its still cheaper than the GM fluid from the dealer.
As for rating, is it still possible to get anything that doesn't meet Dex3?
I had NO idea that much fluid was left in the transaxle after a change, that's nuts! Guess I'll start doing cycles of change, drive, and re-change. Ran the numbers though and with a total capacity (had to look it up) of 5.9qt, even if your getting half the fluid each time, and a perfect mixture of old an new fluid, it would take 10 drain, mix and refill cycles before you have less than a tsp of old fluid left.
Ah, it's tongue in cheek, eh?
I don't know. But if somebody doesn't read the bottle and adds a type that isn't Dexron it will probably cause problems.As for rating, is it still possible to get anything that doesn't meet Dex3?
In my personal experience you will see a big improvement after 4 or 5 changes. (Unless the soft components in the transmission are failing, in which case the fluid will be brown no matter how many times you change the fluid.)I had NO idea that much fluid was left in the transaxle after a change, that's nuts! Guess I'll start doing cycles of change, drive, and re-change. Ran the numbers though and with a total capacity (had to look it up) of 5.9qt, even if your getting half the fluid each time, and a perfect mixture of old an new fluid, it would take 10 drain, mix and refill cycles before you have less than a tsp of old fluid left.
As I've said in other threads on this topic, think of it as cheap insurance. "An ounce of prevention is worth a pound of cure." It's a hell of a lot cheaper than needing a tranny rebuild!
Last edited by Thymeclock; 01-25-2014 at 04:01 PM.
As a Service Manager at an auto shop, a member of the profession or "mere trade", it is about time to weigh in here. Dukeofmuffins, spend the $25 for the lab tests. Once you have conclusive proof, approach the service manager as politely and succinctly as your posts have been. Remember, facts talk and B.S. walks. I will assume at this stage there is no "corporate conspiracy" to rip you off, but a lazy/dishonest employee who got paid for doing a job they did not do. As a service manager, I would want to know. The lab report stops a "he said/she said" argument with actual fact. It would also give the manager the leverage to ask for said employee's resignation (in today's society firing somebody can be legally difficult). If it were the shop I am at, with that lab report in your hand, I would reimburse you the $25, redo the flush with you watching if you desired, and throw in a couple of free oil changes for your trouble along with a big apology and a thank-you for ratting out a bad employee. If there is a "corporate conspiracy" to rip you off (ie: they stonewall), it is worth the $25 to know that this business establishment should be avoided at all costs. As for drain and fill, the idea is to have clean fluid, not semi-clean fluid. 4-5 drain and fills will use a minimum of 8-10 quarts of fluid, probably more, and should include a new filter EACH time, and you would still have fluid that is not 100% clean. Total your costs for that versus my shop's $129.95 flush where fluid and filter are extra. Probably less than what you spent, you get 100% clean fluid, and a receipt to show GM if your trans needs a warranty rebuild. If they did put in an additive that turned your fluid grey (and I know of no additive that would) you should have the right to have them remove the unauthorized additive with a free flush. My feeling is that you should find a good independent shop that pays their employees a decent hourly wage, no commission or flat rate. The flat rate system encourages techs to take shortcuts to earn a living wage and a commission on parts and service work lets lazy employees steal from customers ...but that is another rant. Good luck and keep us updated.
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2009 Chevrolet Aveo5
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