Water Pump Gasket and Timing Belt Repair

Guys,

Today I took my car to the local dealer to have my timing belt replaced, the cost was 555 +Tax. After they completed the repair, they called me and said they had bad news. The water pump was leaking as a result of the work they did, and that to fix the leak will cost me $300 in labor. He said the GM manuals do not advise to replace the waterpump o-ring, and the instruction say to turn the pump clockwise to get at something?. He said most of the time this works, but 5% of the time the gasket will leak. After refusing to pay at first, and 20 minutes of arguing, I finally offered to pay half. He again refused and insisted they are not at fault.

I was shocked to say the least. As a weekend mechanic, I would never attempt a job this big without replacing every gasket or ring in the path of the repair. In this regard, I feel that they are 100% responsible. Can anyone confirm or deny if what he says is true? I don't have the GM manuals, and I have filed a complaint with the GM Corporate Headquarters and I am expecting a call on Monday. If the manuals say to change the gasket, I have a good case. If not, I am probably scammed out $300. Any help or advice is appreciated.

Thanks!!

i dont see how turning the pump would stop a leak. the gasket is just a simple o ring. either way i would hold them responsible

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Originally Posted by ceberus

Guys,

Today I took my car to the local dealer to have my timing belt replaced, the cost was 555 +Tax. After they completed the repair, they called me and said they had bad news. The water pump was leaking as a result of the work they did, and that to fix the leak will cost me $300 in labor. He said the GM manuals do not advise to replace the waterpump o-ring, and the instruction say to turn the pump clockwise to get at something?. He said most of the time this works, but 5% of the time the gasket will leak. After refusing to pay at first, and 20 minutes of arguing, I finally offered to pay half. He again refused and insisted they are not at fault.

I was shocked to say the least. As a weekend mechanic, I would never attempt a job this big without replacing every gasket or ring in the path of the repair. In this regard, I feel that they are 100% responsible. Can anyone confirm or deny if what he says is true? I don't have the GM manuals, and I have filed a complaint with the GM Corporate Headquarters and I am expecting a call on Monday. If the manuals say to change the gasket, I have a good case. If not, I am probably scammed out $300. Any help or advice is appreciated.

Thanks!!

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I apologize for any negative experience you had in getting your vehicle repaired with the dealership. Please keep us updated on the outcome. I hope this is resolved satisfactorily for you. Do contact us if you any questions or concerns. Regards.

Matt,

GM Customer Assisting (Assisting Vanessa)

IMHO, when I worked for the dealership we would have "ate" the cost and approached gm for reimbursement ourselves. But unless this is the first Aveo timing belt this dealer has done. I question two things, first MOST if not all the recommendations I have seen recommend replacing the water pump at the time of the timing belt, for this reason and the overlap should the pump let go within a few thousand miles after this service. Second, if they had a "statistic" to give you of the failure rate. That tells me the dealer (because it is unlikely the factory) has been cutting this corner most of the time, and even their 5% reflects that it is not leaking when it leaves. How many customers do you think end up going elsewhere because a day or a week later their water pump is leaking RIGHT AFTER the dealer fixes it? even if its only another 5%, then 1 in 10 cars are improperly repaired at that dealer.

btw the only time i have ever seen an oring stating it can be reused is if it is fully removed, inspected, cleaned and lubricated before reinstall. Breaking the seal an oring has is considered in my opinion the same as removal. You break the seal when you turn the water pump.

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Originally Posted by ceberus

..... He said most of the time this works, but 5% of the time the gasket will leak ......

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You have to ask yourself one question. Do I feel lucky? Well, do ya punk? :protest:
IMO what this outfit did and said is either ignorance, stupidity, or both. What would make anyone think one of these O (AKA "crush") rings is in like-new condition and reusable after 60K/5 years or more of hot/cold cycles? I've seen the requirement to replace the O ring (even if not replacing the pump), in at least a couple of DIYs, and suspect it's fairly common knowledge for us amatures who spend time researching the job.
But given their un-professional approach to this, you have a very solid counter argument to what they're telling you. I'm assuming they did not give you the 5% talk up-front. So they should have no leg to stand on hitting you with this after-the-fact, without having offered you the option to replace the gasket with an extra charge, prior to beginning the job. However, if they did give you that option up-front, then they probably will be able to wiggle off the hook, and put yet another notch in their stealership belt. Good luck - I hope you wind up getting a N/C out of them on this.

They told me nothing up front, except that the timing belt came as a kit with everything that was needed, and I could pick up my car on the same day -- which really makes me wonder because usually they try to sell you everything from wiper fluid to new brakes. And after they told me of the leak, I wondered for a long time why they did not even offer to replace the pump or the o-ring. That should have been standard procedure for them.

There defense for the o-ring failure was they were just "following instructions in the GM manual", but I think that's a bunch of BS because manuals should only be considered a rough guide.

So thanks everyone for your posts. I have all the information I need and your feedback was exactly what I was hoping to hear.

-greg

Here is my $.02:

I recently did this service on my 2007 chevroo (props to the forum again for the help!) But before I decided to do it myself I called every dealership in the DFW metro area and I got quoted about what you did for the service: $550 for the timing belt (plus pulleys) or $850 for timing belt (plus pulleys) and water pump replacement. When the dealership replaces the timing belt they don't replace the waterpump unless you opt for the additional service (and cost).

When I asked the dealers if I should get the waterpump changed, most of them said that they would inspect it and see from there (but having changed it myself I don't know what good an 'inspection' would do --since it is highly unlikely they would change the belt, and watch it run with all the covers off to look for a leak) So I just figured that it was one of those situations that they get you in there for service 1, and then say service 2 is highly recommended (when they already have your bits in a vice).

Did the dealer warn you ahead of time that the waterpump is a tensioning device for the timing belt? And that by disturbing it (in putting on a new belt) might require replacement of the pump? I feel that that would be best practice on their part, for situations like this. However, I don't think they "caused" the waterpump to leak, by doing anything other than what they were instructed to do (by changing the timing belt), it just would've been nice for them to mention that these items (a lot of the time) need to be replaced together due to issues like this.

Make sense? Hope it all gets worked out.

No, that makes no sense to me. Anyone who thinks they can break an o-ring seal that's been corrided by water and antifreeze for 6 years, and then have that seal somehow magically work again by simply tightening the screws shouldn't be anywhere near an engine.

And no, as I stated earlier they told me nothing, warned me of nothing, and offered me nothing. Anyone with half a brain should know a pump that is 6 years old can fail at anytime and should be replaced anyway.

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Originally Posted by ceberus

No, that makes no sense to me. Anyone who thinks they can break an o-ring seal that's been corrided by water and antifreeze for 6 years, and then have that seal somehow magically work again by simply tightening the screws shouldn't be anywhere near an engine.

And no, as I stated earlier they told me nothing, warned me of nothing, and offered me nothing. Anyone with half a brain should know a pump that is 6 years old can fail at anytime and should be replaced anyway.

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I'm sure the dealer was fully aware of replacing the o-ring and didn't even bother trying the old one as mentioned to you. I suspect the $550 cost given to you was just a lure to get you to have the service work done then put your nuts in a vice by telling you the full cost to replace the o-ring as well. They probably use this tactic to avoid people from going to private mechanics that will do the job for less. At least my dealer was upfront about the work and entire cost involved when I inquired about it.....also the reason why I had to do a serious crash coarse in learning how to replace my own timing belt. :D

When i had my timing belt done they tried to do the same thing, they tried to say that its in the service manual that it need to be replaced, well i went to work the next day and as i work in a shop That services some gm trucjs i had access to the gm service docs, i printed off the procedure went in and created a real big fuss in front of 30 or so customers, they didnt like that and ended up not charging me for the new pump and seal. Some times you just have to make a real big fuss, kinda like when you were a.kid and a temper tantrum just way more civilized lol