Vertical Doors

[oscare003]

where is that guy who was supposed 2 install those lambos??

[Z34guy]

where is that guy who was supposed 2 install those lambos??

I think I scared him off by hijacking his topic. XD

[oscare003]

nah he was on earlier.

tidus10 WHERE U AT!~

[thehunterooo]

lol he is deaf now you know, yelling for him will do no good :P

[serega12]

100% agree, though myself i would like people to stop dwelling in the past, just like you said, years ago there was an era where many domestic cars were not very good, but today its the opposite

I feel very strongly on that topic and will not dumb down my views for anyone. I will fight to the death to defend domestics.

I respect that. You support the economy of the country we live in.

[petrified.rabbit]

I'll piss you off by saying. A lot of domestics are still crap, and poorly built. The cobalt is a terrible car comparitively in almost every way to the last few years of cavalier that it replaced. It's a gm people mover. I have both in the family

Gm and the us have the ablity to build great cars. But most of thier fwd selection over the last 30 years is junk. And that is based on having taking them apart and seeing how they are built, they have a lot of great new cars coming out. Or that have been out for a short time.

Ford really stepped up a few years ago.

Chrysler has always thought differently, but the bailed on their on good idea recently and have gone back to make 1980 nostalgic box crap.

While I agree with your theory. I think big 3 should be more like other companies In other countries and offer special order built cars here in the us. They don't care about their buyers. Their salesmen don't know their products etc.

For example gm makes a 2 door aveo. Why the hell can't I get one?!
I would love a ford falcon ( I think it's called) but you can't get one.
Chrysler was going to reintroduce the dodge colt, a rebadged vw polo, as a return for building the routan. The bailouts cancelled that venture thus also delaying vw release of the polo here. As it was going to be much easier for Chrysler to emissions certify the same engine as vw.

Gm makes more optional equipment outside of the us because people research what they buy and all the reinvestment back into the company is either outside the us or redundant (why build the new aveo and cruze here when the supply is already meet out of the daewoo plant?). It's just venture slight of hand to keep bailout overseers happy until they fail again.

[Z34guy]

All GM FWD in the past 30 years was crap? I think you're sorely confused. Because that encompasses the W-body as well, which, for the longest time was GM's most profitable platform and the reason they lasted so long before having to be bailed out. Anyone else notice that when they started to phase out the W-body, their profits went down significantly? Granted, the W-body platform was concieved in 1982 and the project was poorly managed due to GM's constant reorganizing during the 80's. But the fact remains that it's an award winning platform and the very reason Buick during the late 90's and early 2000's gained such a reputation for quality and reliability. The W-body was introduced in 1988 with the release of the Pontiac Grand Prix, Buick Regal, and Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme. And what happened? The Pontiac won 1988 car of the year while the Olds introduced HUD to the world on cars. You can hate GM all you want, but give credit where it's due. The W-body is a brilliant platform with multiple awards. The W-body has also had multiple engines used in them appear on Ward's 10 best list. In fact, the 3800 series 2 V6 popularized by the Pontiac Grand Prix and Buick Regal was on Wards 10 best engines of the 20th century.. Along with Chevrolet's small block V8 and Cadillac's L-head V8, Ford's Model T I4 and Ford's Flathead V8. Half that list were American engines.
[youtube:1lunpz64]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=prjJBlTGdJQ[/youtube:1lunpz64]

And leave the Cobalt alone. It's a FAR better car than you're giving it credit for. Sure the interior won't win any awards, and it hasn't but give the car credit. The Cavalier before it was known for it's poor safety ratings for a high risk of pelvic injury. The Cobalt got a best small car safety pick from the Insurance Institute for highway Safety. And the Cobalt's performance made waves throughout the automotive world. American cars can't handle? The Cobalt held the world record for the fastest FWD production car to ever lap the Nurburgring (2008-present Chevrolet Cobalt SS T/C) beating the Nissan Skyline GTR's time bu 4 seconds. it wasn't until recently that the record was beaten by a French car with a stripped interior and a roll cage. The LSJ supercharged 2.0L I4 has been hailed as the next Chevy small block because it's so easy to tune. Ask any real enthusiast and they'll tell you the Cobalt is one of the best FWD small cars on the market today.

I can see you disliking GM, but they HAVE been making great cars. You're just too stubborn to see it. EVERY car has faults.

[petrified.rabbit]

Ironically the arguement you use why the platform is so good is the same arguement about what's is wrong with gm in the first place. In the 80's look how awards were classed, much like the reasons Honda wins awards today. Who you are competeing with and who the judges are matters.

YouR beloved platform was design in 1982 and was out dated by 1990. How much longer did the platform stick around? By the late 90s the gaps of the 80s design were unacceptible by industry standard. But they kept them another 15? Years that way.

The gm platform system is kind of relying on uninformed buyers and creating your own competition to sell the same car, even if not at the same dealer.

I actually like some of the engines. I swapped a 3100 into a chevette. It's was great. But you can't say every gm engine is award winning or even a good design.

Oh btw. Thread related. I have yet to see an Audi with a 3 starting the vin. So I don't think any Audie are built in Mexico. But yes vw are. And vw has a headquarters in michigan just like gm.

When the aveo is built stateside hopefully someone can compare it to a korean version I bet the Korean is better. Only because us labor has stopped appreciating the good pay for their "hard" work ( like in the 60s-70s) and began expecting the same pay for no work. Losing the American work ethic the same way the American dream for immigrants no longer meant citizenship.

[Z34guy]

Ironically the arguement you use why the platform is so good is the same arguement about what's is wrong with gm in the first place. In the 80's look how awards were classed, much like the reasons Honda wins awards today. Who you are competing with and who the judges are matters.

YouR beloved platform was design in 1982 and was out dated by 1990. How much longer did the platform stick around? By the late 90s the gaps of the 80s design were unacceptable by industry standard. But they kept them another 15? Years that way.

The gm platform system is kind of relying on uninformed buyers and creating your own competition to sell the same car, even if not at the same dealer.

I actually like some of the engines. I swapped a 3100 into a chevette. It's was great. But you can't say every gm engine is award winning or even a good design.

Oh btw. Thread related. I have yet to see an Audi with a 3 starting the vin. So I don't think any Audie are built in Mexico. But yes vw are. And vw has a headquarters in michigan just like gm.

When the aveo is built stateside hopefully someone can compare it to a korean version I bet the Korean is better. Only because us labor has stopped appreciating the good pay for their "hard" work ( like in the 60s-70s) and began expecting the same pay for no work. Losing the American work ethic the same way the American dream for immigrants no longer meant citizenship.

LOL. SOmeone hasn't researched the W-body. The platform itself is still relevant and up to date today. The car LOOKS were outdated by 1990 and the cars were promptly given a facelift in 1991. But to say the new W-body's are identical to the Old W-body is blasphemy. The W-body has had a fully independent suspension from the start, something that import humpers didn't think GM did until recently with the Camaro.. The first gen used a single transverse leafspring as part of the rear suspension geometry. Realizing how out of date the one leafspring was, the Platform was completely redesigned for the 1997 model year. And that continued until 2003. The W-body was supposed to be canceled in 2004 and replaced with the Epsilon platform (which itself has won comparable awards), but fans and shareholders threw a fit, so the W-body was again redesigned in 2004 and continues to today, although is still in the process of being phased out.
List of gen 3 W-body cars:
2006-2007 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
2004-2008 Pontiac Grand Prix
2005-2009 Buick LaCrosse
2006-2010 Chevrolet Impala

List of gen 2 W-body cars:
1997-2003 Pontiac Grand Prix
1997.5-2004 Buick Regal
1997-2005 Buick Century
1998-2002 Oldsmobile Intrigue
2000-2005 Chevrolet Impala
2000-2005 Chevrolet Monte Carlo

List of gen 1.5 W-body cars:
1995-1999 Chevrolet Monte Carlo
1995-2001 Chevrolet Lumina

List of gen 1 W-body cars:
1988-1996 Pontiac Grand Prix
1988-1996 Buick Regal
1988-1997 Oldsmobile Cutlass Supreme
1990-1994 Chevrolet Lumina


and to win car of the year, a car has to go up against ALL NEW CARS released that year regardless of manufacturer in that market. So it's a very hard award to win.

[petrified.rabbit]

and to win car of the year, a car has to go up against ALL NEW CARS released that year regardless of manufacturer in that market. So it's a very hard award to win.

funny because the honda crx si is also the "car of the year" - i assume you are talking about motor trend.. car of the year back then was 3 categories: domestic, import, and truck. your car, won domestic car of the year. which from the cars available from the big 3 in 1988 wasn't hard. but still an accomplishment. but your the expert.

maybe you are too young, but 2000? or 1999 ? (year of model or year i cant remember) was the first year imports and domestics competed for the same "car of the year"

and to give some idea to how great the "car of the year" is some winners are : the 2002 thunderbird, is that still around? it had tons of recalls etc.. pt cruiser, why did it win? rebodied nostalgic neon? honda civic, we all know hondas are superior in every way.. and a toyota camry that doesnt stop..

at least motor trend admits to some of its mistakes..

http://autos.yahoo.com/articles/autos_c ... ve-history