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Well my car now has just over 92000 km's and still has the stock front pads and rotors. They started making some noise since they are prety used up but they still brake very well.
So i went to ebay and i just bought the slotted/drilled rotors and pads from R1concepts. I've heard from a few ppl on here that they are pretty good. When they get here in about 2 weeks (damn echeck) ill take some pics and post em up.
sweet deal.
When I got mine, I was warned about them cracking in the winter months NEM. something about moisture getting into the slots and drills and freezing...I guess we'll find out this winter...
I've been through a winter on mine, no problems yet... maybe spray them down with brake cleaner once in a while? Pretty sure it acts as a water dispersant.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ron-E-Babe
You'll hate the slots after 10k or so miles... :lol:
Why do you say that?Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity Racing
Braking becomes choppy... the car will noticeably "glug" when coming to a halt... it's so annoying I milled an outgassing slot in my race pads because it was terribly annoying to drive withQuote:
Originally Posted by aveosummit
yeah i have been wanting to pick up some of those rotors for a while. as soon as the stockers go out those are next mod to come.
I haven't noticed anything like that at all and I've had two differrent types of slotted rotors now, back and front with the stock size.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity Racing
Well with all the feedback this thread caused, i'll let you guys know how good they work, maybe you got a bad set Audacity
Nah, it's the reason they don't use slotted rotors on high speed race cars :wink:
That is the most asinine **** I have heard yet.Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity Racing
It's a shame you have no idea what you're talking about...Quote:
Originally Posted by aveodude
Formula 1 brakes
http://www.usgpindy.com/news/2007/im...0-04182007.jpg
Ferrari F430 Brakes
http://www.cardotcom.com/cars/images01/ ... brakes.jpg
Viper SRT-10 Brakes
http://blogs.edmunds.com/.ee955fc/cmd.2 ... e..ee955fd
Porsche 911 Big Brake kit from RENNSPEED
http://www.rennsportsystems.com/930brakekita.jpg
Porsche Carrera GT Brakes
http://www.supercars.net/gallery/119513/1445/621125.jpg
If you'd like race cars specifically, I'm more than happy to post even more evidence. Even the Lacetti WTCC car has multi-scored rotors but not grooved.
The only race scenario you'll see them used frequently is in rally where the pads/rotors get junk on them constantly
don't most racecars use ceramic rotors... a single one being more expensive than an aveo?
Nah, there are ceramic rotors for the Aveo if you get the right hat-rotor combo 8)
I am sorry but you sir, are an idiot. Look at the brakes you posted. Most of them are Carbon-ceramic which are totally different that standard brakes. And if you put carbon-ceramic brakes on an Aveo, you are retarded because the brakes alone are going to cost more than your car did new.
The reason the Carbon-ceramic brakes are drilled is because they do not have to worry about cracking like standard metal brakes do. That is the reason most brakes are slotted over cross drilled. Also, all the cars you posted have their own brake cooling ducts to slow down the cracking process. I can gaurentee you put a slotted rotor in there and it will perform just as well (100-0) and last much longer. Reason it will perform just as well, ABS. ABS slows the car down as fast as physically possible without locking the tires. If you can feel the ABS kick in with your stock brakes, it is going to do the same thing with ANY aftermarket brakes. Plain and simple, if you want your car to stop faster than it does now, get stickier tires. The ONLY thing it will help with is break fade and gain a bit of HP (less unsprung weight).
Please come with facts about some **** you are gonna try to claim instead of just posting pictures of cars you have seen in a magazine.
Here is more FACT supporting my arguement.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Disc_brake#Racing
And if you dont want the link, I copied it here.
/rantQuote:
Discs may also be slotted, where shallow channels are machined into the disc to aid in removing dust and gas. Slotting is the preferred method in most racing environments to remove gas, water, and de-glaze brake pads. Some discs are both drilled and slotted. Slotted discs are generally not used on standard vehicles because they quickly wear down brake pads; however, this removal of material is beneficial to race vehicles since it keeps the pads soft and avoids vitrification of their surfaces.
On the road, drilled or slotted discs still have a positive effect in wet conditions because the holes or slots prevent a film of water building up between the disc and the pads. Cross drilled discs will eventually crack at the holes due to metal fatigue. Cross-drilled brakes that are manufactured poorly or subjected to high stresses will crack much sooner and more severely.
great, if my rotors crack and turn to **** within a year of use, r1concepts you will be thrashed in every forum...
:lol: Sweet... wikipedia has the last word on everything these days... it's a shame that photographic evidence says otherwise.
Here is something to think about... The point behind slots is to prevent outgassing from making a pneumatic cushion between the pad and the rotor (good pedal feel, no friction). This is caused by the pad, not the rotor. Turns out, carbon and ceramic brakes both use standard type pads (except in f1)... meaning the outgassing problem exists on carbon and ceramic systems as well.
Now let's look at the physical science behind what I said...
As the slot and the pad intercept, the total frictional force on the brake (the brake torque) drops. Why? Because there is physical loss of bite between the pad and the rotor. This can be counteracted by pressing harder on the pedal, but at high speeds you wouldn't be fast enough to catch it. So what happens is during a time of non-engagement the friction is higher than when the slot is under the pad. The braking force is literally higher... That means when the slot comes around, the car will lurch forward. That is a fact!
In applications where water typically gets on the rotor (touring, gt, prototype) they often use dimpled or multi-scored rotors. These offer smaller frictional losses while still "deglazing" (read: chewing up) the pad. Here is a Daewoo example, the WTCC Lacetti...
http://xs320.xs.to/xs320/07435/211712.jpg.xs.jpg
That pic is MASSIVE
Like I said before, in rally they use true slots or spirals, but it's uncommon in true high-speed applications.
Also, for the record, I work in the motorsports industry, I didn't just get the idea from looking at pictures in magazines :roll:
I didnt say they had the last word on everything. I was just showing FACT from a source which you have failed to do. You just keep bringing up carbon ceramic brakes which has nothing to do with what we are talking about. I totally agree that carbon ceramic brakes are the best possible thing you can get as far as braking goes but chances are, no one that owns anything short of a $100K sports car will ever use them.
Those "dimples" that you posed in that picture are, you guessed it, SLOTS. Just a different variation of them. Again I bring the point that cross drilled brakes WILL crack due to heat stress. I know the theory and the process behind the way the actual brakes work but thank you for sharing.
And as for your whole nonsense that even ceramic brakes use standard pads, you are wrong on that as well. Porsche and Ferrari both use ceramic pads as well. Here is more FACT that even aftermarket companys use ceramic pads
http://www.hawkperformance.com/performance/ceramic.php
That is great that you are in the motorsports industry. But please to not prance that around like you know something you obviously know nothing about. All it means to me is that I would be deathly afraid if I ever went to your shop to get work done. Luckilly for me, I do all my own work.
And here is more ACTUAL EVIDENCE stating there is more out there than your standard brake pads
http://www.tirerack.com/brakes/tech/tec ... ?techid=88
This one is Kevlar
http://www.ebcbrakes.com/redstuffinfo.html
And please, if you are going to make an argument, please post fact and not your wrong opinion to pictures that you stroll across on the internet.
In general, cross-drilled rotors are the ones that crack. Not saying that slotted ones wont, but it is very less likely. You will be okQuote:
Originally Posted by Ron-E-Babe
Do you read my posts or just scan them? You make arguments against things I'm not even saying... :?
Quote:
Originally Posted by Audacity Racing
Quote:
Originally Posted by aveodude
i dont get it?? should i use r1's slotted or cross drilled or both or stick with oem's when its time to change the rotors
this was a heated debate... they can both be "right" because one is talking from common knowledge while the other is talking from personal experience.
but basically, if you don't push your stock brakes hard stay stock, its usually the cheapest option.
if you would like a little more performance, typically just upgrade to a semi metallic pad, this will cause the rotors to wear a little more quickly, and cause dust. but you "should" pick up some stopping distance. semi metallic pads will run hotter though.
if you do something like auto cross, or make long slowing stops after drag racing. you will want to have either slotted or drilled rotors (or both). these crack over time, the designs they use are taken from cars that originally would have the brakes changed every race. like stated about other compounds can have them longer because they don't have cracking issues like steel ones.
in common use. slots mostly benefit the pads, drilled mostly benefit the rotor. they both allow gases to escape which benefit both. however the slots deglaze the pads if the pads run hot. the drill holes "cool" the rotor. knowing which you need is based on when your brakes fade. once you experience brake fade and tear your brakes apart, its usually easy to see which got hot.. if the pads are glazed you might want slots. but if the rotor looks like a rainbow of metal heating you will want drilled. sometimes if you wait too long or push the car too hard, both will happen so you will want both. but these "performance" rotors do not last as long as solid rotors.. unless you need the cooling benefits, as glazed/warped stock rotors don't last very long.
you can also use semi-metallic pads and drilled slotted rotors.. for improvements overall. but brake options depend on driving and your needs of performance. also drilled and slotted rotors typically do not improve stopping distance. the improve fade. but only size will improve distance.
i've locked up my brakes a few times. the stock brakes work pretty good. i would probably keep oem style rotors and pads, maybe go semi-metallic, but spend the money upgrading the fluid, and get metal flex lines.
once summer comes around i think i may look into a big brake kit. 11.3 inch in the front, and 9" discs in the back. using OEM manufacturer parts. (not gm)
Holy crap, I remember this thread now lol.
It depends on what you are looking for. If you are looking for faster stopping (shorter braking distance), stick with the OEM stuff and get yourself better tires.Quote:
Originally Posted by acdc1287
If you are looking for less brake fade during an auto-x course or road course, get the slotted with upgraded pads, new brake fluid, and steel braided lines.
If you want flashy on the streets, get either slotted and drilled
Just keep in mind, your braking system works only as well as you tires. If you can lock up your tires with the stock braking system, you have more power left in them. Brake fade is a whole other story though.
I made my debate from more than just common knowledge.Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
FWIW, the reason that drag cars use drilled or slotted (or both) rotors is for unsprung weight. Not for actual braking.Quote:
Originally Posted by petrified.rabbit
yeah.. i meant common knowledge of people who know brakes...
unsprung weight is also why most drag cars dont go to up sized rotors. but i didn't know the weight difference was enough to help.. ill have to measure them and see.
"you will never find a place to remove 100 pounds but you will find 100 places to remove one pound"
Every little bit helps. Most are not even vented so that they can be as thin as possible.
http://www.wilwood.com/BrakeKits/Pages/15/index.asp
Plus going with bigger sized brakes means not fitting sized slicks. Most slicks are 13"-15". Some are larger but the vast majority are in that size range.
drag cars don't really need brakes, one stop from 130mph is not so bad... it's repeated 100-40mph stops that truly test your brakes.
I have been to many track events and most track cars are running solid rotors.
Here is a quote from Tirerack.com
Brake Rotors and Track Use
Slotted, drilled or dimpled rotors offered as OEM replacements should not be considered appropriate for high-speed track use.
While grooved, drilled and slotted rotors offer an enhanced appearance and add some resistance to the boundary layer of gasses that can build up between the pad and rotor, they are not designed to withstand the extreme temperatures that are produced on the racetrack. If they are used on the track, it is very important that the rotors be carefully inspected and should not be driven on if even minor signs of deterioration are seen. Note, too, that if these products are used on the track they are not warrantable.
edit: do is not the new to
i have heard that quote. but drag racing isn't really my thing so your giving me new info..
check out kvr they take stock rotors and either slot drill or j hook them and ship them to you, i have j hooks and i switched back to stock pads and the car is tracked with no problems and a moderate increase in stopping power they get my voteQuote:
Originally Posted by acdc1287
so is this a discussion about brakes or a dick measuring contest?
lol both i think :P
lolQuote:
Originally Posted by thehunterooo
I'm curois about this too. In terms of what's better, drilled/slotted vs OEM.
My wifes Aveo has the OEM which have warped. I was going to get the drilled/slotted R1Concepts replacement rotors in hope of them not warping as easily again. I though drilled/slotter were all around better, less heat, less weight etc.
I know on all my race bikes the rotors have always been drilled and the stopping power is amazing.
I have had the R1 brakes for a while now, seems about the same, they just look a lot cooler :D